Let's talk charging systems.

[laserjock]

Alrighty guys. We all know that the stock alternators on the pre- 92 (I think) leave something to be desired.... They suck really. Now before anyone gets aggravated and chimes in that they've never had any problems with theirs in 20 some odd years.... I get that. Stock and everything functional and you are probably good. I know I'm figuring on some extra lights and possibly e fans and maybe even deleting the vacuum pump after hydroboost ing the truck so I'll need at least a small electric vacuum pump for the cruise and the heater vents. I also figure the truck will end up doing a fair bit of short tripping to the lumber yard so getting a good charge back relatively quickly without having to idle a while would be ideal.
To that end, I thought a conversation dealing with charging system upgrades might be informative.

After doing a little reading, the popular thing seems to be the 3G alternator upgrade but that pretty much requires an accessory change to serpentine belts. I'm kinda partial to the v belts because if one breaks you don't necessarily loose everything. So I thought I would ask the community about other options.

One thing I have seen somewhere on an off-road forum was dual alternators on a bronco I think. This immediately got me thinking because I thought to myself, hey, if I eliminate the vacuum pump, Ill have space for another alternator. The biggest problem I can see is that you can actually add too much alternator and cook the batteries. Not good when you have two of them and they aren't cheap. Hmmm, I wonder how tough it would be to graft an AC clutch on there so that it could disengage when not needed.

These are the thoughts running around in my brain at the moment. What are yours?


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[Ruger_556]

If properly regulated over charging the batteries wouldn't happen no matter what your potential output is.

 

[wildman7798]

3G 3G 3G .. The system is a beast and will do all you ever need and more. Take the time and convert to serpentine and do it right. All you have to do is carry a spare belt with you.

 

[theguruat12]

I've seen many 3G conversion threads using a v-belt pulley. You have to grind the alternator case ribs down but it looks extremely simple.

 

[wildman7798]

I've seen many 3G conversion threads using a v-belt pulley. You have to grind the alternator case ribs down but it looks extremely simple.

That's even better and simpler ! !

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

After doing a little reading, the popular thing seems to be the 3G alternator upgrade but that pretty much requires an accessory change to serpentine belts. I'm kinda partial to the v belts because if one breaks you don't necessarily loose everything. So I thought I would ask the community about other options.

you know who says these type of things? people who haven't run serpentine belts lol.they're in everything now and it's not because they're inferior.
it's just like anything.you keep up on maintenance and they're not a problem.simply inspect the belt every other oil change.around every 75-125k miles you'll see it starting to crack.just replace it before it brakes and your good for another 75-125k miles.those who fear changes this drastically are the ones loosing out on better modern/updated things.
im sorry,but iv had plenty of old cars with v-belts.i know enough to know first hand,there's no bragging rights with 'em lol.

 

[junk]

you can swap the pulley on a 3G serpentine alternator to a v-belt no problem. You can even buy a spacer so the pulley doesn't hit the case if it does. I'm putting a 3G on my 89 with v-belt. I bought a new 3g alternator from DB electric. I would do the 3G no matter what. Mine was for a 95 Taurus.

Regarding v-belt versus serpentine. I have both. I had a powersteering bracket break one time, but was able to cut off the belt and keep on trucking with my v-belt setup. On the other hand the serpentine is much easier to put a belt on. I'd prefer they had the same system between the trucks, but both have new A/C compressors and it's not worth changing systems.

 

[PackRat239]

Two point I want to make here. Dual alts wont work because the voltage regulators limit the current any time it senses a voltage increase, so they will be shutting each other off. ( I hope that makes sense). Second, idling WONT charge the batteries. You must be running above idle. In fact, vehicle charging systems make a terrible battery charger. The more the voltage in the batteries comes up, the lower the charging voltage. You need a manual regulator override and a HIGH output alt. Like 200 amps or so to do what you want. Check out wreckers, ambulances or long distance sailboats for ideas.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

Second, idling WONT charge the batteries. You must be running above idle.

that 3 g in your '93 sure will.

"At IDLE it cranked out more than 100AMPS"
http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26658

 

[PackRat239]

They dont work that way. If they did you wouldnt be able to keep a battery long. They would be boiled dry in no time. That would be like charging your batteries with the "start" position on your battery charger. Dont believe everything you see on the net.

 

[laserjock]

you can swap the pulley on a 3G serpentine alternator to a v-belt no problem. You can even buy a spacer so the pulley doesn't hit the case if it does. I'm putting a 3G on my 89 with v-belt. I bought a new 3g alternator from DB electric. I would do the 3G no matter what. Mine was for a 95 Taurus.

Regarding v-belt versus serpentine. I have both. I had a powersteering bracket break one time, but was able to cut off the belt and keep on trucking with my v-belt setup. On the other hand the serpentine is much easier to put a belt on. I'd prefer they had the same system between the trucks, but both have new A/C compressors and it's not worth changing systems.

Okay, fine... maybe 3G is the answer. I am intrigued by this. I have two sets of v-belt accessories so if I can swap a pulley reasonably easy, I can get behind that. More reading.

As for dual alternators... that only applies when the alternators are internally regulated right? I'm pretty sure I read that one of the significant changes from the old style to the new was internal regulation. If both alternators are on the same side of the regulator, how would the regulator know the difference? I guess I need to go do some reading on how the voltage regulators work. If you are correct (and believe me I'm not saying you aren't) I need to educate myself better.

This is why I started this thread. I knew that I would learn something.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

They dont work that way. If they did you wouldnt be able to keep a battery long. They would be boiled dry in no time. That would be like charging your batteries with the "start" position on your battery charger. Dont believe everything you see on the net.

go ahead,give someone with a flat battery a jump.you'll see (if their battery takes a charge) you'll be able to get that car turning over super fast in just a couple mins with your '93 idi truck..........at idle.

the voltage regulator handles your fears of boiling the batteries.

 

[franklin2]

1. Ford does offer trucks and vans with a dual alternator setup from the factory. A lot of them are ambulance packages. It does work. Properly functioning regulators will not let the battery be overcharged, no matter how many alternators you have.

2. You can run a v-belt pulley on a 3g. But be warned, a single v-belt will not let you realize the full output of a 130 amp unit. The single v-belt cannot transfer enough horsepower to charge much over 100amp without slipping. Guess what our old original v-belt alternators are? 100 amp.

3. The 3g was designed for more output at lower rpms. So even if you are limited by a single v-belt, you would still get this advantage of more output capability at lower rpms. Don't worry, even though it has more output, the regulator keeps this in check, nothing will be overcharged.

 

[theguruat12]

2. You can run a v-belt pulley on a 3g. But be warned, a single v-belt will not let you realize the full output of a 130 amp unit. The single v-belt cannot transfer enough horsepower to charge much over 100amp without slipping. Guess what our old original v-belt alternators are? 100 amp.

Is that only for OBS and bricknoses? My '85 has a 75 ampere alternator.

 

[icanfixall]

I feel lots of misinformation is spreading thru this original post. No matter. This community realizes the practical sense using both v belts and the serpentine system. For me changing one belt is quicker and easier than changing 4. We all know the alt v belt fails first. Sadly thats the first belt installed on the engine front. So all the belts must come off to fix one. Not so with a serpentine system. Keeping tools and tensioners and idler pulleys with just one belt solves road side serpentine belt issues. But if an alt bearing locks up your dead anyway no matter what system you use. No remember we only need 7 volts from a battery to operate the fuel shutoff solenoid so we can drive without an alt for many miles but thats not the point. Please remember that our altnaters only purpose is to refill a battery after a start and to power ALL the electrical applications on the car or truck. They are not to be used as a battery charger. They will charge a dead battery but they get hot quickly and are not designed for that.