project: watch out Kentuckians

Macrobb

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.... Damn, I totally missed all the discussion about the Typ4 cam, decompression etc.

Over on FtE, I have a thread about my '88. I've tried for a couple of /years/ now to get my Typ4 cam to work(the first engine I threw it in was probably a bit high on the valve spec - the pistons were hitting the valves so much that it made /no/ power. And no, you couldn't really hear it.
Put a stock cam back in? It ran just fine. Tried like three times to get it to work on that motor, back and forth.

I also ran into an issue with the next motor, which I had fully rebuilt by a local shop. That just got a stock cam. After a few thousand miles, it started to tick.
A few more thousand and I found that the #1 exhaust guide was completely gone.
Upon disassembly I found that the passenger side head had not been recessed to spec. /every/ valve had hit, some worse than others.
The driver's side was within spec, and there was no valve marks on the pistons. Imagine that!

When rebuilding from that, I had got a set of 'decompression' gaskets from a guy on the forums over there - three layers of thin steel with two layers of Victor Reinz material in between A good .110" thick. Tried to use the Typ4 cam, and while there were no clearance issues... it just didn't want to run right. Lots of white smoke.
Ended up putting the stock cam back in... and found the same issues, but less. It would at least run cleanly with the stock cam(note: adjusted injection timing on both cams).
I ran that for a couple thousand miles, until the gasket started to leak. Despite having /lots/ of copper-coat on all the steel surfaces, it was getting lots of bubbles in the radiator.
Note that I suppose I should have retorqued the studs - I was running ARP studs initially torqued to 120 ft-lbs, but never touched them again(stock gaskets don't require it).

One head(that had apparently been where the leak was) had a bit of a crack on the underside. I didn't have another handy, so I just threw it back on with stock gaskets.
Surprisingly enough... No leaks as far as I can tell.
And it ran *much* better than with the decompression. Far easier to start, no 'smoking until it warms up' etc.

That ran for another few months, during which I installed a bigger turbo, got it maxing 30+ PSI of boost... and then the engine threw a rod one cold morning as I was starting it up(day after black friday).
At which point it's sat, waiting on some time and money...
I'll note that even now, the radiator is perfectly full. Still no water leaks, even with the oil pan having some nice big holes in it!


Out of all this, I have come to the conclusion that:
1. I don't trust rebuilders. If you have to have a machine shop do work, double check it yourself! Cheap micrometers and calipers are good enough, and really cheap.
2. IDIs /do not/ like decompression. Stock gaskets are great, and shouldn't be messed with.
If you can find extra-thick one layer gaskets, great... But I wouldn't trust any layers of metal not to leak over time.
3. Recess the valve seats for extra clearance. Near as I can tell, the seats have plenty of material, and it should be trivial to recess them, say, .030" without impacting function.
4. IDI valve guides need lubrication - all of the heads I've seen have some guide wear.
I've also found that simply /not having/ the valve stem seals... does not cause smoke or noticeable oil loss.
Next build won't have any guide seals - better to burn a little oil than to wear the stem.
Also, considering both sides are under /pressure/(from the turbo) and not suction as in a gasser... getting enough lubrication may still be hard.
 

austin92

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I got two pins on order. They were only a few bucks.

The next thing I'm doing is working on getting the oil feed line for the turbo. This engine has 1/4" oil ports so I was going to run 6 an hose.

I have been looking at different types of hoses but not sure what temp range I need. How hot does the oil get?

Any suggestions are welcome.

I think 280 is a safe max but it can get hotter than that


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laserjock

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Actually one came in the kit with the oil line. That's what I used. I don't remember what size it is.
 

no mufflers

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I talked to Mel and he said the turbo has the oil restrictor in it.

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laserjock

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That's interesting. That doesn't look like much of a restriction. I don't know why Garret would say to run a restrictor if they had already included one. I guess I need to do some more research.
 

no mufflers

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il try to get a better picture. from what I can see the hole is threaded and it does get smaller.
 

laserjock

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You know thinking on this and doing some reading, the Idi may not need any restriction. Garrett says 40-45 psi at full RPM. I went back and looked at a couple posts and it seems that's about all you get out of these engines once warm. They are known to be high flow low pressure on the oil side. My truck at cold idle is just south of 40. At warm idle it's around 15 psi. I've read a bunch of posts on this now and most people seem to say just keep stepping down restrictors until it quits smoking (pushing oil past the seals). I think Heath just used the block that was on his banks turbo but I don't have any idea if it's restricted or not.
 

no mufflers

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these are a bit better. the last one is using the bore scope.

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laserjock

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Now I want to go home and rip the restrictor off. Seems like the seals are metal so no permanent damage for a little oil pushing past. Glad we are having this discussion.
 

no mufflers

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I wasn't doubting you, but I had to call him for some other parts and ran it by him. its his turbo so he would know what's in it. I wasn't sure if all the Garrett turbos have them so i figured I would post it. its hard to tell from the picture but its a much smaller hole. I can fit a .082 drill bit in the hole. and that is the one that is hard to see with the camera.
 

laserjock

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No no! Don't take anything as doubt or negativity. I'm new to this stuff. All I have to go on is my research. I in no way think it's bulletproof.

I'm debating what to do now. Luckily, the oil feed ended up pretty much on top so the turbo doesn't have to come off to get at it. The thing is it seems like the downside to removing it is pretty small if it's wrong.
 

no mufflers

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I would say its not a big deal. from what I was seeing online the two bolt flange plate just has a small hole in it as a restrictor. if that's your case you could remove the plate and drill out the center to a normal size hole.
 

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