Moose Pump Review

[FORDF250HDXLT]

i almost wounder if 3.55's wouldn't be better for this speed,so you could get your boost up more.
though,im sure you didn't have 55 in mind when you set your truck up of course.but now ya know,the wind drag is what gets ya more then a few extra rpms.
to bad there wasn't a real quick and easy way to gear swap (and free.)

i bet that cam from type four would be just the ticket to help ya increase boost at lower rpms too thus increasing fuel economy even more.

do you have future plans for the electric fan conversion?

 

[david85]

I'd like to go with an electric fan but other things like getting the electric CAR back on the road have a higher priority at the moment. I need to get that thing running so we can have the other half of the shop back(hope to start on the home stretch tomorrow - *checks clock* oh, make that today).

But remember I was running the truck all winter long with the cooling fan removed so I do have some idea of what advantages there could be for an electric fan. It helps in the winter when warm up times are longer and I do a lot of short trips, but seems to make little difference when cruising at constant speed and at operating temperature. I would guess that for long haul trips like this, the MPG gain to be found from running an electric fan, or in my case, no fan, is probably at or below 1 MPG. If I were to use a junk yard setup for a few hundred bucks, it would probably still pay off in a couple years.

After the 55 MPH empty test, I'd like to try isolating warmup periods via the block heater and also the urban driving by switching tanks at the on ramp. I'm dying to know how much my highway average is being affected by including data from my short trips.

The turbo so far is basically just along for the ride. There is no boost when burbling along at 1200 RPM and I still would hardly see any at 1500. Only time I see real boost (more than 5 PSI) is when I allow RPM to rise above 2000 for a hill or situation in traffic. Having some extra boost might help but I have no idea.

 

[Diesile]

Seems like we really need a variable geometry turbo......IDI style!

 

[david85]

Anything is better than the crap that banks, ATS and hypermax put out! Something that can spool steady and efficient up to about 20 PSI. There are some discussions about what would work better, although VGTs didn't come up.

The key to my results here is low engine loading at low RPMs due to low cruise speed. Turbo boost under these conditions might not add anything since the engine seems capable of swallowing enough air on its own under these conditions.

 

[Diesile]

Riding in my friends '04 6.0L is a curiosity because there is always boost. Those engines
apparently are set up with the variable turbos to have/need boost to be EPA ready or just need the boost. I see 10lbs easily when the same piece of road, gear ratio and vehicle wt.
on my idi would show 0 boost (factory 7.3 ATS turbo engine).

 

[david85]

Well the moment we have finally been waiting for is here. I drove 55 MPH empty today.

I did something different this time to isolate the highway cruising and warm up period(s) completely from todays test. Basically I refueled before leaving town, then refueled immediately when getting back about 5 hours later.

So the first fuel up was 37.1L and 258km distance = 16.06 MPG - better than I expected.
That was a real mixed bag of urban driving, some mild highway driving and even some logging roads (lots of slow idling on roads I probably shouldn't have been on without a spare tire).

The second fuel up was for as consistent a run at all 55 MPH blacktop as I could get. Engine was at operating temperature when I headed out on this second fillup so today is probably about as good as its going to get.

30.95L for a distance of 332.7 km calculates to about 24.83 MPG.

As always, this is an average of 2 directions on the same length of road to get a good average that doesn't get inflated by a tailwind or some other factor.

This beats out my old record which was 22.5 MPG cruising somewhere between 65-70 MPH empty.

 

[Brutis]

Awesome numbers! Thanks for the test results!

 

[dyoung14]

I'd like to go with an electric fan but other things like getting the electric CAR back on the road have a higher priority at the moment. I need to get that thing running so we can have the other half of the shop back(hope to start on the home stretch tomorrow - *checks clock* oh, make that today).

But remember I was running the truck all winter long with the cooling fan removed so I do have some idea of what advantages there could be for an electric fan. It helps in the winter when warm up times are longer and I do a lot of short trips, but seems to make little difference when cruising at constant speed and at operating temperature. I would guess that for long haul trips like this, the MPG gain to be found from running an electric fan, or in my case, no fan, is probably at or below 1 MPG. If I were to use a junk yard setup for a few hundred bucks, it would probably still pay off in a couple years.

After the 55 MPH empty test, I'd like to try isolating warmup periods via the block heater and also the urban driving by switching tanks at the on ramp. I'm dying to know how much my highway average is being affected by including data from my short trips.

The turbo so far is basically just along for the ride. There is no boost when burbling along at 1200 RPM and I still would hardly see any at 1500. Only time I see real boost (more than 5 PSI) is when I allow RPM to rise above 2000 for a hill or situation in traffic. Having some extra boost might help but I have no idea.

When i first put my truck back togather i didnt put the fan on it, and its summer time here pretty much, and the temos outside on average have been 85-90 my truck never saw over 180 driving around, i did see 215 pulling a 8% grade mountain one day with no fan, but now i put the fan back on and hooked my a/c up cause im going to start towing with it and it never gets over 190 no matter what now, and mostly runs 175

 

[david85]

One really silly idea I am toying with is to make a sheet metal block off for the grill of the truck. Its really easy to do with the 80s body style. That would have a slight improvement on the aerodynamics of the truck by forcing air around the cooling package. I know it sounds crazy but its been done before. There would still be some room behind for limited amount of air to circulate via the cooling fan. I remember looking it up somewhere but there is a lot of wind resistance that goes into the cooling package of any water cooled vehicle.

Can't help thinking about it, I have my eye on 30 MPG now

 

[david85]

Well I guess the last run is more sure now.

Total distance was 355km
Total fuel burned was 33.72L
Cruise speed = 55 MPH

Result = 24.3 MPG

24 kilometers out of 355 was driving around town earlier in the week. Thought about switching to the rear tank to keep this run strictly highway miles but that would have resulted in an increased risk of inaccuracy. Besides, this is now my official net average! This fillup is once again a direct, consecutive fill from the last run on the same tank, same pump at the station, same nozzle fill setting and on the same side of the pump as before.

Oh, one thing I did try before heading out today was have the truck plugged in for a few hours first. The idea was to reduce the warm up time but its hard to say how big a difference it made. Truck was running on the first roll without using glow plugs and the high idle/timing advance never came on. A nagging thought I am having is if running dummy glow plugs and more advanced timing would make any difference. Meh, thats an experiment for another lifetime.


I guess I'll be satisfied with claiming 24 MPG for now.
Used the A/C occasionally and it was a little windy today. The beast didn't seem to care though.

Did I mention lately how much I love this truck?

Moose pump works good too.

 

[david85]

I'm going to try reviving this since I had a few runs recently that allowed me to further test my 55 MPH cruising.

Last week I got 24.1 MPG running with some railings haning out the back half the time, and the tailgage up (bone dry empty) the other half. These miles were put down with a hot engine the whole time - no warmup time at all.

This week needed the trailer again, but I was able to break through 19 MPG for the first time. Another similar trip is planned for either next week or the week after, so I'll be very interested to try and chase that number again. At 19.8 its frightentingly close to 20 MPG (previous record was 18.8). These miles included some shorter driving of about 10-20 miles (again, empty), and I did NOT isolate the warmup period at all (maybe I'm giving it too much credit?)

The truck seemed to have a bit more torque this time around and could drag the trailer over hills at lower speeds than last year under the same conditions. It was neat to see how stubborn the speedometer was. I used the AC sparringly; once to cool off the interior after a stop, and again to solodifiy a granola bar. Had a little fun switching it off near the top of a shallow hill and saw the speedometer stop falling and start rising again. It all adds up when you're on the ragged edge.

I also was able to test my speedometer and am now comfortable with assuming a 5% speed error (reading higher than actual speed). Previous tests on this thread can be considered closer to 52 MPH because of this. Odometer error is about 1.6% over estimate, so that brings it all in at 23.71 and 19.48 MPG.

These are consecutive fillups on the same tank. It was on the other side of the pump however....hope it doesn't matter too much. Hopefully I'll find out soon enough.

I did notice an intermittent grey puff out of the tailpipe recently when it was idling in the sun. I can't be sure but I might have a less than perfect injector in there. When I get some time, I'll dig out the old delphi BB injectors I have in storage and see if its worth putting them back in. I'm running stanadyne D injectors at the moment.

EDIT: one more thing. I had the tires averaging between 65-70 PSI for the ~24 MPG run. The towing run was with all tires at 80 PSI.

 

[itsacrazyasian]

impressive numbers for sure, especially since its not a one time only event.

Makes me wonder what my pig is capable of if it didn't have the aerodynamics of a brick wall.

a SOLID 16 in my city commute to work with the a/c kicking in my truck is no prob. Speedo is accurate verified by gps. 20 is easily attainable if i slow down to 55, but i usually cruise 75-80 and i can watch it just suck fuel down.

btw those numbers are done solely on wmo mixed with Jet A(jp8). 50/50.
Running waste atf drops my numbers down to 13/17.

edit: by the way have you finally set your timing?

I got my hands on a mt480 and set it for 8.5 btdc. My motor is happy.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

nice David!!!!
so by bumping up your tire pressure to max,you saw a clear whole MPG in just your first run,over your previous PEAK under the same conditions.with perhaps some shorter runs that you didn't have on your previous peak as well id guess.

now ya know why i get mad at myself when i don't check my tire pressure every week.
it matters.of course with 6 wheels it's thats much more important.i,like you,really notice when i put 'em back up.she rides a lil firmer,but who the heck cares.its all like making $.

 

[david85]

impressive numbers for sure, especially since its not a one time only event.

Makes me wonder what my pig is capable of if it didn't have the aerodynamics of a brick wall.

a SOLID 16 in my city commute to work with the a/c kicking in my truck is no prob. Speedo is accurate verified by gps. 20 is easily attainable if i slow down to 55, but i usually cruise 75-80 and i can watch it just suck fuel down.

btw those numbers are done solely on wmo mixed with Jet A(jp8). 50/50.
Running waste atf drops my numbers down to 13/17.

edit: by the way have you finally set your timing?

I got my hands on a mt480 and set it for 8.5 btdc. My motor is happy.

Thanks, I've always tried post MPGs on an ongoing basis through consecutive fillups to eliminate any false high or low results. Lately I can almost guess how much fuel the truck will take, so I back off the filler nozzle to the slowest setting when I figure there is still another ~10 liters to go. It seems to be working.

I haven't a clue what my timing is set at.

When I first put the pump on, it was too far advanced and I started loosing glow plugs. Nothing fell off or anything dramatic, but the knock would kill them. I dialed it back and haven't touched it since. Even the local shop that rebuilds all sorts of injectors and pumps doesn't have the equipment to dynamic time the old ford or GM DB2 pumps in the truck. I already have another one that is dead but being summer the truck doesn't really care. I can't help but wonder if its related to that smoke puff I saw the other day. A bad injector could cause this depending on what goes wrong......

Numbers like this make me want even more to convert my F150 to diesel since I know its lighter, has a lower stance and smaller frontal area.

 

[david85]

nice David!!!!
so by bumping up your tire pressure to max,you saw a clear whole MPG in just your first run,over your previous PEAK under the same conditions.

MAYBE.

There are other factors to consider, like the engine being further away from the initial break in. I still have to repeat this result to be sure its for real.

Although since all previous towing results were likely at a slightly lower speed and still within a 0.6 MPG corridor (with todays result being 0.6 MPG higher than the highest), it is encouraging.