'94IDITurbo7.3
HAMMER DOWN!
here you go.......http://www.fordmann.com/F350.rear_disc_brakes.htm
hydroboost or rear disc
- Thread starter Vegas-Misfit
- Start date
The biggest problem with the rear shoes is NOT the proportioning valve, it is the SHOES!
Almost everything has gone to discs anymore and the consumer brake divisions have got to the point where they basically ignore shoes as an annoyance that they have to keep dealing with, but they are a high cost , low profit item for them, so guess what, they put the crap linings on them ( when was the last time you saw a manufacturer bragging about their semi metallic or ceramic shoe linings? most ALL are just basic organic linings...EXCEPT for the commercial ambulance grade). Even most of the ones that advertise as heavy duty etc, wear at silly fast rates to where they wont stay in adjustment and it feels like you never have any brakes.
After going off the Grapevine a couple years ago in California EMPTY in 115 deg heat and having my rear brakes completely fail from heat fade roughly 30 miles later and winding up in the back of a mini van , I swore off the consumer grade stuff for good and got the ambulance brakes )wagner severe duty carbon metallic, which is nice, they match the carbon metallic pads up front for even stopping application ). Talk about night and day, all the sudden , when towing, I wasnt having to crawl under the truck every other day with a brake spoon. I can lock up all 6 without any problem and they stay nice and tight ( and before I was using one of teh brands that a lot of folks around here like to brag on )
Fact is if you *really*want to stop, you are going to pay a bunch for rear stoppers. If you want to pay half that much, fine... plan on stopping in twice the distance... or maybe not at all
Granted , the ambulance grade are semi metallics and WILL eat your drums, but, thank you, drums are cheap, I can buy a pair of drums for less than the cost of an insurance deductable.
Almost everything has gone to discs anymore and the consumer brake divisions have got to the point where they basically ignore shoes as an annoyance that they have to keep dealing with, but they are a high cost , low profit item for them, so guess what, they put the crap linings on them ( when was the last time you saw a manufacturer bragging about their semi metallic or ceramic shoe linings? most ALL are just basic organic linings...EXCEPT for the commercial ambulance grade). Even most of the ones that advertise as heavy duty etc, wear at silly fast rates to where they wont stay in adjustment and it feels like you never have any brakes.
After going off the Grapevine a couple years ago in California EMPTY in 115 deg heat and having my rear brakes completely fail from heat fade roughly 30 miles later and winding up in the back of a mini van , I swore off the consumer grade stuff for good and got the ambulance brakes )wagner severe duty carbon metallic, which is nice, they match the carbon metallic pads up front for even stopping application ). Talk about night and day, all the sudden , when towing, I wasnt having to crawl under the truck every other day with a brake spoon. I can lock up all 6 without any problem and they stay nice and tight ( and before I was using one of teh brands that a lot of folks around here like to brag on )
Fact is if you *really*want to stop, you are going to pay a bunch for rear stoppers. If you want to pay half that much, fine... plan on stopping in twice the distance... or maybe not at all
Granted , the ambulance grade are semi metallics and WILL eat your drums, but, thank you, drums are cheap, I can buy a pair of drums for less than the cost of an insurance deductable.
User tbrumm just bought an all new hydroboost last week- here's the thread: http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?62634-Got-my-hydroboost-parts-yesterday! Granted he is converting a 94 but his parts source(s) should be helpful if there is any difference for your rig. There is also an offset M/C pushrod available to avoid drilling the present pedal if it doesn't line up. It has been so long I can't remember who sells it. I'll have a look at some of my old notes to see if I can find it but here is a pic
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Vegas-Misfit
Full Access Member
That pushrod would be awesome so I could keep the integrity of the brake pedal if you could find who makes it that would be greatly appreciated
tbrumm
Full Access Member
yeah, all my hydroboost parts are here and ready to install. Just needs to warm up so I can do it. Although I purchased my Motorcraft booster from an Ebay vendor, RockAuto has almost as good a deal. You will want to order the replacemenet power steering pump reservoir from an actual Ford parts vendor, as RockAuto did not have one when I checked. The part number is in the hydroboost tech article. Again, I ordered mine from a Ford parts dealer on Ebay. The Ford reservoir comes with the new o-rings you will need. When I ordered the pressure hoses from RockAuto, I noticed that there are different hoses from the PS Pump to the booster depending on year of truck. At some point, Ford apparently changed the pump fitting, so watch that when ordering and make sure you get the correct hose that will fit your year of truck. The new hoses come with the o-rings you need to seal the fittings at the booster. Good luck with your install - you will proably get yours done before I get mine! Todd
look in the tech articles section. there's writeups and part numbers to be found there.
gatorman21218
Registered User
My hydroboost install was a nightmare. I'm not trying to scare you but for me it was very difficult so be prepared for the worst and hope for the best.
I modified my brake pedal. I cut the old pin flush and drilled a new hole. I used a long 9/16 bolt so I could cut the threads off and have a smooth pin. I drilled a small hole for the cotter pin and pushed the bolt through the hole and welded the head on the backside. that way you are relying on the shear force of the bolt and not the weld. that was the easiest part of the whole swap.
I did buy the F-SUPERDUTY P/S reservoir from ford. it was 40 or so dollars at the time.
I would strongly suggest you replace the rubber hoses. mine caused the brakes to lock up on the first real drive and I got it towed home.
As gary(icanfixall) mentioned you are doubling your brake line pressure so I would go over your steel lines with a fine tooth comb.
A recap of my install:
Bad reman booster right out of box (i'm now on my 3rd one)
stripped threads in the P/S pump and subsequent heliocoil install
I think I broke my flare tool and had to by another one
Rubber hose failure causing much stress, a tow ride and new calipers and brake pads.
I modified my brake pedal. I cut the old pin flush and drilled a new hole. I used a long 9/16 bolt so I could cut the threads off and have a smooth pin. I drilled a small hole for the cotter pin and pushed the bolt through the hole and welded the head on the backside. that way you are relying on the shear force of the bolt and not the weld. that was the easiest part of the whole swap.
I did buy the F-SUPERDUTY P/S reservoir from ford. it was 40 or so dollars at the time.
I would strongly suggest you replace the rubber hoses. mine caused the brakes to lock up on the first real drive and I got it towed home.
As gary(icanfixall) mentioned you are doubling your brake line pressure so I would go over your steel lines with a fine tooth comb.
A recap of my install:
Bad reman booster right out of box (i'm now on my 3rd one)
stripped threads in the P/S pump and subsequent heliocoil install
I think I broke my flare tool and had to by another one
Rubber hose failure causing much stress, a tow ride and new calipers and brake pads.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
That looks pretty cool, but if this pushrod is to be used, I'd suggest one retains their factory master cylinder and not swap the F-Superduty monster. It's a matter of leverages and piston apply areas, but what it boils down to is that of the 3 different combinations (factory master + modified pedal, F-superduty master + factory pedal, and F-superduty master + modified pedal) the big master pushed by a factory pedal is the worst as far as line pressure goes. Not to mention the F-Superduty has the proportioning valve built in as part of its rear port fitting, while the slantnose trucks as mentioned already use a combination valve on the frame - stacking the two may result in unsafely low rear line pressure.
As far as hoses go - use one for an '87 or '88 F-Superduty. For the '89 models Ford decided to pull an a-hole move and replace the pump fitting and hose w/ ones that utilize a teflon o-ring to seal between fitting and line nut. It's a very stupid design, essentially a 1-time installation, cause once the teflon seal distorts and squishes that's it, you'll have to get a new one if you're to disconnect hose from fitting,and they are a mother to install - requires heating the POS under hot water then stretching it over a big round chisel, and it also shrinks fast while it cools so you gotta be ninja about it and install it while still hot and soft.. Whenever I see one of those abortions (so pretty much on anything Ford '90 and newer) I just pull the fitting from the pump w/ hose still attached to it. Whereas '88 and older PS pumps use only rubber o-rings to seal between pump fitting and hose line, and they are piece of cake to replace if needed. Examples for hoses to use: Duralast 71415 for pump to hydro & Duralast 71416 for hydro to steering box. Return from hydro to pump can be bulk hose 3/8" in diameter, and preferably of the SAE J1532 (trans oil cooler) variety.
And as Gatorman kinda suggested, get a hydro unit from a reputable source (New OEM, NOS, independent rebuilder, etc) - units from parts store are not exactly uber-reliable, but they are certainly priced as such.
Vegas-Misfit
Full Access Member
IM buying a brand spanking new motorcraft hydro unit off rock auto... IM going to head to the parts store after work to get the hoses... now only things ill need is power steering pump and master cylinder... will the factory master fit over the hydro unit is the biggest problem i might have... as i dont mind modifying the existing brake pedal... and i literally just bought a new factory master because the old one had a leak... so if i could use the factory master that would be a huge plus
You can use the existing MC
You can modify the brake pedal, however a qualified welder would be helpful to fill that old hole or gusset the arm!
NO need to replace the power steering pump unless yours is dead or dying. Just replace the can/reservior, it's a simple procedure to replace the plastic tank/can/reservoir unbolt the fitting the main pressure line comes out of, carefull theres some loose parts under tension/spring pressure that can shoot out...not lots of pressure just slight..but it can happen. Remove them and the spring watch the order....twist off the tank, remove the Large O ring, lube and install new O ring and lube the tanks inside edge with PS fluid then slide in place careful not to cut/pinch LG O ring. Replace the spring and valve then install the Hi pressure fitting with new lubed O rings. Done
Now is a great time to install one of these magnetic filters too from
http://magnefinefilters.com/Magnefine-3-8-Magnetic-Inline-Power-Steering-Filter-R038M-P.htm
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Seeing as your installing all new hardware, you can then add in new fresh power steering fluid and be done knowing your covered.
Hope that helps.
Al
By the way, I do not know if akk of the parts catalogs have been straightened out as of yet, but a couple of years ago whnen I did mine, It was completely impossible to purchase a dual return inlet rear cover for a late style power steering pump ANYWHERE, Somehow Ford screwed up the part number and all of teh aftermarket suppliers screwed it up in suit to where every single one I ordered from everywhere , even though they showed to be the dual inlet in the parts catalog, came in as the single, and I ended up just having to T in the return lines, but I did some research and Bendix lists that as a fully acceptable return line routing as the hydroboost unit is suppost to have a restrictor in its outlet that reduces flow volume. If you search online for hydroboost plumbing you can find alternate routing plans. ( I actually used a booster off a chevy suburban, but the booster has the same part number as the f450, just a slight difference in rods and other minutia )
Vegas-Misfit
Full Access Member
i have a buddy who is a certified welder so i have that covered ill drill a new hole and then have him plate and weld the old hole... that should be plenty strong id think
Vegas-Misfit
Full Access Member
Not sure, I got mine from auto wrecker and it was a Superduty truck with Hydro...
the last hydro thread, the OP did manage to buy a new reservoir and such. Check recent threads...see what he had to say.
idiabuse
Full Access Member
***!?
Man you be hatin on the ninja tricks when werkn a ferd, Ninjas do it in the DARK!
I dont heat the water anymore, just slowly roll em into place.
Javier
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