Draining ALL the oil from block, not just the pan?

[8gitmusik1]

So, Oilburners.... Who else knows about this? And, who else does this when changing their oil/filter?Personally, I've never done it because I never knew this existed...until now.

So, here goes.... I have read somewhere that there is another oil removal location BESIDES the drain plug at the oil pan?

This area, when siphoned properly, supposedly removes ALL the REST of the remaining oil still located and trapped in the oil galIey. It is supposedly located and accessed via a block plug, at just above and behind the water pump?

Anyone else chime in here, as I'm not a mechanic but it seems logical to me that leaving a portion of the old oil, unremoved at every oil change can't help engine longevity and, can only serve to contaminate the new oil, at EVERY new oil and filter change.

This seems like a critical extra step, and without performing this, thereby sabotages the effort and time it takes to do a proper maintenence regime on our diesel engines.

Is it just me or does this make common sense to anyone else, and if so, who else has done this or heard of this, what is your experiences and thoughts?

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[theSHERPA]

I guess you are smarter than every Ford (or any other manufacturer) engineer in the last 50 years. If it was an issue, their would be a drain designed to remove ALL oil.


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[Thewespaul]

If you want to pull that block plug out in a van for every oil change by all means go for it. You’ll only get about enough out to cover your palm, and in a system that takes over ten quarts, it really doesn’t matter. How often you change the filter is more important

 

[8gitmusik1]

I guess you are smarter than every Ford (or any other manufacturer) engineer in the last 50 years. If it was an issue, their would be a drain designed to remove ALL oil.


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Nope, SHERPA,

Not so smart, really, thats why I'm here, asking you all for input.

I might have some "hard won" life sense, thats all (some would argue that too).

I am just tired of making the same mistakes, expecting different results.

I'm headscratcher, for sure, and as such, think alot before doing things that either dont work, or that others do differently from me.

As I mentioned, this isn't even my original thought, I heard about it elsewhere, maybe even another forum, can't remember, thats why I posted the info.

Just trying to figure out the why's and how's to make things work or continue to study and do research on topics or things I've done the same way, and then hear about a new take on it.

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[8gitmusik1]

If you want to pull that block plug out in a van for every oil change by all means go for it. You’ll only get about enough out to cover your palm, and in a system that takes over ten quarts, it really doesn’t matter. How often you change the filter is more important

You see, Wes, that is the answer I'm looking for. I really don't want to do this if it is a stupid idea.

From my threads, ya'll can see I'm NOT a true mechanic, just a guy with more time than money now, asking questions about concepts that seem like a good idea but, In years past, I and friends, built a number of 302 Fords up and had old chevy 327,350, 427,454 builds, I have never pulled apart an entire diesel engine like you have Wes.

Most I've done is maintenence on my rigs over the years, and pulled the intake and valve covers, heads off a truck long ago, and thrown a lot of exterior parts on diesel rigs to fix wornout items, but its been awhile since I have had to go deep on any engine until now.

Heck, if its a waste of time for only a cup or less of remaining old oil then it makes no real longevity gain for anyone.

If that is the final word Wes, and others, thanks for putting the idea to rest.

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[ifrythings]

The only major part that keeps oil is the oil cooler itself, it gets filled from the top and leaves the top, if you really wanted to get most of the oil out you could turn the oil cooler bundle 180 degrees and it would all drain out when you pull the filter. Only down side to that is the oil pump would have to fill it back up every time you started the engine adding more time without oil pressure.

 

[FordGuy100]

Reminds me of the king of powerstrokes aka powerstrokehelp who says you need to drain the HPOP oil ()

 

[Randy Bush]

I total agree with Wes, There are so many areas that you with not be getting the oil out of. lifters, pushrods, oil laying on top of rockers, oil pump different areas in the block that oil just lays in. Oil galley in just a very small area.

 

[snicklas]

Agreed with the above. One thing to keep in mind, ALL engines have some old oil in them at a change. Even, something like a small engine, there is some left behind. It just depends on the engine.....

I don't know the exact amount, but on my 6.0, listed below, takes 15 quarts (Almost 4 gallons) at an oil change. The oil filter housing (it's a cartridge type filter) drains to the pan when the filter is removed. I've read to completely refill a 6.0, after something like a complete teardown and rebuild, where all the oil is removed from the block and all components, it takes something like 20 quarts to refill to the full mark after reassembly. I understand this is apples to oranges, but the oil cooler, high pressure system, lifters, low pressure system, and all the nooks and crannies hold that additional oil. Wes it right, changing the oil and filter at a reasonable interval, and using a HIGH QUALITY oil is far more important, than getting every drop of the old oil out.

Coolant is the same way. An IDI holds 8 gallons of coolant, but I guarantee you will NEVER drain 8 gallons out when doing a drain, flush and fill. I think the best I've read, even with the block drains pulled, might get 6 gallons.......

 

[rwk]

oil in the galleys is the oil that reaches the crankshaft and cam first, if you drain it out your crank and cam will not receive oil as soon after it is started after an oil change, so essentially a dry start, old oil is better then no oil, power strokes keep at least a qt. of oil that doesn't drain out.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Even if

This area, when siphoned properly, supposedly removes ALL the REST of the remaining oil still located and trapped in the oil galIey. It is supposedly located and accessed via a block plug, at just above and behind the water pump?

draining all of the oil was beneficial, this location would not get it all out. There are 4 (I think) oil gallies that are low on the driver's side of the block, right above the oil pan rail. One of these would (should?) drain more oil since they're at a lower location.

Agreed with the above. One thing to keep in mind, ALL engines have some old oil in them at a change. Even, something like a small engine, there is some left behind. It just depends on the engine.....

I don't know the exact amount, but on my 6.0, listed below, takes 15 quarts (Almost 4 gallons) at an oil change. The oil filter housing (it's a cartridge type filter) drains to the pan when the filter is removed. I've read to completely refill a 6.0, after something like a complete teardown and rebuild, where all the oil is removed from the block and all components, it takes something like 20 quarts to refill to the full mark after reassembly. I understand this is apples to oranges, but the oil cooler, high pressure system, lifters, low pressure system, and all the nooks and crannies hold that additional oil. Wes it right, changing the oil and filter at a reasonable interval, and using a HIGH QUALITY oil is far more important, than getting every drop of the old oil out.

Coolant is the same way. An IDI holds 8 gallons of coolant, but I guarantee you will NEVER drain 8 gallons out when doing a drain, flush and fill. I think the best I've read, even with the block drains pulled, might get 6 gallons.......

I've installed so many of these engines, that I usually buy 4 gallons of oil for an oil change and then wonder why I have so much left over when it's full. I'll also buy 4 gallons of antifreeze before flushing one out. The good news is that it doesn't cost any extra to leave it sitting in the garage for later.

 

[Macrobb]

Yeah, honestly... I think we are really talking about <1 quart on an IDI, based on my experiences pulling these apart.

Just drain the pan, remove oil filter, install 7.3 PSD/FL1995 oil filter and refill with 11 quarts of oil and be done with it.

Edit:
Just to point out - Even after 5k or so miles, the oil isn't going to be 'bad'. It's just full of soot. Changing the oil+filter thins out the soot.

Also, if you change it on a regular basis(I change mine every 3K or so, because it seems to like it better), you won't have to worry at all about "old oil". And you'll find the inside of the engine to be spotless when you take it apart.

 

[8gitmusik1]

Awesome, Oilburners,

Thank you ALL above, for your thoughtful responses. Its a priveledge for me to hear from those that have the experience and diesel engine knowledge to speak logically on this subject.

You folks really rock for coming from ALL angles and opinions, challenging me and my questions and comments and finally, for showing/explaining your real world valid reasons why, this approach to doing an "OVERKILL" oil/filter change is not needed.

In your varied opinions, and mechanical experiences, all here have all ended up concluding that removal of all oil in an engine is not necessary or required.

It seems after this interesting discussion, Wes of Classic Diesel Designs, still said it simply and best, so far....

That good ol' fashioned, reliable service is KEY, and the tried and true REGULAR oil changes using quality oil and a great quality filter are better for longevity than removal of every possible removable amount of old oil and related particulated contaminants. I may have overexpanded a bit on what Wes said, but the gist is there.

And really, in my GUT I didn't need to post this debate. But, I thought since OB is a discussion forum and to stir up a topic, it might be fun and useful from an information standpoint.

From years of doing the above 3-5k oil/filter changes (depending on vehicle) I have personally had good success, with the above method (without ever removing every bit of oil possible) and have run several vehicles from "manufacturer birth to junkyard death".

I personally know that my engines ran better, got better gas mileage and lasted longer just doing the tried and true quality oil and filter at regular intervals way.

In fact, been doing it that way since my first car, in 84' when I worked all summer at a soup and sandwich shoppe to save for a 1964.5 Mustang)

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[square1]

These engines routinely last 300~400k miles and it's doubtful many have ever had the plug / oil in question removed. I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[nostrokes]

Reminds me of the king of powerstrokes aka powerstrokehelp who says you need to drain the HPOP oil ()

I saw that one on youtube.. i asked a buddy of mine that was working on his master diesel cert from ford.... after 10 minutes of laughing he told me it does not matter, probably just a money making scheme....
I stopped watching his videos after i saw one where he said "I only do top quality rebuilds" then went and stuck a used cam in a rebuilt motor. his excuse was the cams never wear out, so i guess the cheap mexican steel cam in my dads old 78 K5 blazer was still good, even with a flat lobe......