Draining ALL the oil from block, not just the pan?

[Thewespaul]

If you want all the oil just take the filter off and fire the engine up till the oils done draining, that’s what the oil pump is for right?

 

[IDIBRONCO]

so i guess the cheap mexican steel cam in my dads old 78 K5 blazer was still good, even with a flat lobe......

From my limited experience, this was somewhat common with small block Chevys. I can't remember hearing of this with a Ford small block.

 

[Randy Bush]

I saw that one on youtube.. i asked a buddy of mine that was working on his master diesel cert from ford.... after 10 minutes of laughing he told me it does not matter, probably just a money making scheme....
I stopped watching his videos after i saw one where he said "I only do top quality rebuilds" then went and stuck a used cam in a rebuilt motor. his excuse was the cams never wear out, so i guess the cheap mexican steel cam in my dads old 78 K5 blazer was still good, even with a flat lobe......

A big difference of a Chevy cam where the lifters ride directly on the cam and a diesel that has roller lifters that cause very little wear on the cam.

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[Macrobb]

I stopped watching his videos after i saw one where he said "I only do top quality rebuilds" then went and stuck a used cam in a rebuilt motor.

With an IDI at least, I would re-use the cam if it didn't look worn.
IDIs use roller lifters, and I've seen cams that looked brand new coming out of multi-hundred-K motors. As long as you have oil in it, and the lifter doesn't rotate or disintegrate, the cam isn't going to wear at all.
Also, chances are that the stock cam is better(closer to spec) than a new cheap cam from some random cam builder/China.

Heck, I'll point out that the lifters have little wear either. The surface in contact with the cam, on all the lifters I've seen, has been spotless once I wiped away the film of oil.
The wear has always been with the side of the lifter against the lifter bore, and the weak point on the lifters is the hydraulic bits inside getting crudded up due to a lack of oil changes at some point in it's life.

 

[8gitmusik1]

Macrobb,

Ive read many of your other posts.

Seems like you have the experience of a number of complete teardowns and rebuilds under your belt ?

What in your opinion is the most common wear item on 7.3 idi engines?

What item or items fail most commonly?

Can you list the main causes of having to do a rebuild?

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[Macrobb]

Macrobb,

Ive read many of your other posts.

Seems like you have the experience of a number of complete teardowns and rebuilds under your belt ?

What in your opinion is the most common wear item on 7.3 idi engines?

What item or items fail most commonly?

Can you list the main causes of having to do a rebuild?

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I'm not the most experienced with doing things 'right', because I haven't had that much money.
However, what I can tell you is:
What I find is that as long as you keep oil in it, very little goes wrong generally.
Most of the motors that I've gotten as "oh, it needs a rebuild", is usually fuel issues. Get the IP/injectors/glow plugs working, and even a totally worn engine will run just fine.

Things that I tend to see all the time are:
1. Oil Leaks. The front and rear main seals tend to leak(after many years), and basically every single one I see could use new seals here. Also, the oil pan gasket tends to be an issue.
2. Lower oil pressure due to stuck oil cooler bypass. This doesn't seem to hurt anything, but it is odd seeing 10 PSI at hot idle.
3. Head gaskets. It's just plain a fact of life that after 20+ years, they are going to go sooner or later.
4. Valve train issues. I've seen plenty of valve guide wear, due to lack of lubrication. I personally think that if you put a turbo on the engine and rebuild the heads, just plain remove the valve seals - they aren't needed, because you have pressure pushing the oil outwards anyway and you need all the lubrication you can get.
Speaking of this, I saw one exhaust guide that got so bad(with like 1/16" of play) that was run that way for quite a while. The valve spring lost it's temper and as such the engine was running on 7 cylinders.
5. Lifter wear. I still don't have a good handle on what exactly makes a lifter "good" or "bad" in terms of leak down/pump up - because that's basically the only issue-prone part of them.
6. Just plain worn out rings. This is your typical 'death' of an IDI - it'll just plain start drinking more and more oil until you decide to rebuild it.
(Note that it's totally possible to have an IDI burn a quart every 100 miles through the rings, but fire right up and not smoke a bit, assuming your IP/injectors/glow plugs are working right.
7. You can find worn out bearings and such, though that's often caused by abuse/lack of oil.

On top of this, you can find random issues that happen to one in 10K motors. Stuff like a connecting rod snapping in two for no reason(happened to me once, and one other member I know of).

Also, in other news, I'm convinced that a turbo does not hurt longevity. I think it actually helps it, due to lower EGTs most of the time. EGT spikes won't kill an engine, it's long-term high EGTs("heat soak" basically). Head gaskets don't seem to blow more frequently with a turbo, I think it's just that by the time someone goes "this thing is low on power, I need more!", the head gaskets are old and stressed already and going to fail soon no matter what.
6.9s, however, are more likely to blow a new gasket with a turbo, because the bolts are much weaker. A studded 6.9 and stock 7.3 are close in terms of head gasket clamping.
(And, of course, a studded 7.3 is going to turn the connecting rods to putty before the head gasket goes).

 

[8gitmusik1]

Macrobb,

Thank U for taking me to "school" in this topic. I learned a lot, reading your response.

This forum and its members have really been a blessing to me, in re-learning some stuff I forgot and many things I've needed to know, but didn't even know I needed to know, till I read the topic disscussing the issue.

Educating myself here and reading the solutions and various preventitive methods to keep things from occurring before those items wear or break is awesome.

Macrobb, your real life experience helps me and hopefully many others, to keep our old school diesel trucks and vans on the road and out of the junkyard.

Thank U again for taking your time to share this info.

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[Noiseydiesel]

Long story short, with an open drain plug, drop in a quart to rinse out the bottom of the pan. This does help to keep the new oil cleaner.

 

[nostrokes]

From my limited experience, this was somewhat common with small block Chevys. I can't remember hearing of this with a Ford small block.

Very common in the late 70's and early 80's Chevy's. They went to a cheap manufacturer in Mexico that used bad steel. Believe it also effected the big blocks too.

 

[Macrobb]

Long story short, with an open drain plug, drop in a quart to rinse out the bottom of the pan. This does help to keep the new oil cleaner.

...If you have buildup in there from previous neglect, yes.
In which case, I'd pour diesel in there instead of oil - it's a better solvent.

In most cases, this would be total overkill - I've pulled several pans, and not seen any buildup(as expected), because any and all dirt/soot is suspended in the oil itself.

 

[8gitmusik1]

...If you have buildup in there from previous neglect, yes.
In which case, I'd pour diesel in there instead of oil - it's a better solvent.

In most cases, this would be total overkill - I've pulled several pans, and not seen any buildup(as expected), because any and all dirt/soot is suspended in the oil itself.

You have been following my van re-start/water found in oil pan scenario. Do you think that it would be a good idea, i.e. SAFE to put some diesel fuel down the oil fill so the water/sludge can finish draining out the water that may remain as when I pulled the oil drain plug again today, what is now coming out is globs of oil soot, then a few dribbles of water, then more sooty oil, no antifreeze. I did check the clear milk jugs thsi morning after they sat all night and oil at top, clear water on the bottom only. Will the diesel fuel help to drain/clean out remaining soot or is this a last resort/sketchy thing to do?

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[Macrobb]

It wouldn't hurt I think. I'd definitely find a small metal rod and push it up through the hole to make sure there's nothing blocking it. Then, perhaps put the drain plug back in, pour a quart of diesel in the oil fill, and wait for a few minutes, then drain again.

At that point, well, just fill with oil and get it running.
I'd probably plan on changing the oil again after some driving(say a couple hundred miles), sooner depending on how it looks. If it ever looks milky, change it.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I'd definitely find a small metal rod and push it up through the hole to make sure there's nothing blocking it.

Just don't push it too far or hard. The end of the oil pump pick up tube is very close to the bottom of the pan right above the drain plug.

 

[8gitmusik1]

It wouldn't hurt I think. I'd definitely find a small metal rod and push it up through the hole to make sure there's nothing blocking it. Then, perhaps put the drain plug back in, pour a quart of diesel in the oil fill, and wait for a few minutes, then drain again.

At that point, well, just fill with oil and get it running.
I'd probably plan on changing the oil again after some driving(say a couple hundred miles), sooner depending on how it looks. If it ever looks milky, change it.

I'll do it tomorrow. Yep on on the oil plug hole rodding, did it once, help the gunk to come out better, will do that again a few more times after diesel sits in pan. Yep on the oil swap, 2 or 3 times after a short amount of time driving it, thats if I can get it running. Still a little blown away, that it would run at all after the water. I still worry about the cylinders, rings, pistons being rusted together. I havent finished removing the GP's, really a PITA to get to the GP's in the front of the motor behind the A/C compressor and behind the alternator with all the other stuff in the way. I'll try a 3/8" ratchet, a wobbly and a deep socket and git er done. Will get after it again tomorrow, wish me luck

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[8gitmusik1]

Just don't push it too far or hard. The end of the oil pump pick up tube is very close to the bottom of the pan right above the drain plug.

Thanks for the reminder!

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