Coolant in Oil

[Zaggnutt]

I understand your predicament well. That is why I suggested just buying that other truck, and rebuilding your engine later. On the other hand how much downtime can you afford? It may be cheaper to just pull your engine out and drop another one in its place, the good thing about these is that there aren't a million electrical harnesses and coolant hoses to disconnect and everything is fairly easy to get to. If you have access to a shop with an overhead crane or a big forklift the swap can be done in a day as all you do is take hood off and yank engine straight up, no need to mess with dismantling the front clip to gain access for a regular engine hoist thru there.

I'll be honest with you, that engine you have now is a write-off. Maybe it's salvageable with the right parts (likely crank and cam and bearings), but that takes time and another means for transportation and securing an income. Which are things you right now do not have. So basically the way I see it you have two choices: buy that other truck if it's in your price range and you deem it in good enough working order to keep you employed (carbed 351 engine with a 4-speed behind it is about as reliable and simple/cheap to fix up if needed as it gets), or grab that engine from the ad posted earlier and buy some foods and drinks for your co-workers and have them gang up on it and tear your damaged engine out and drop the "new" one in. Either way you're in and out of it and back to working and making money. Which is what the priority is.

Btw I can't watch photobucket videos for some reason, idk why but it's always been an issue for us. So I can't help you any based on what may or may not be in said videos, sorry.

Okay, thanks for the input. I feel like buying the engine I may be just trading one bad engine for another. If it was being sold by a member I would be more inclined to go that route. Picking up another IDI does keeps me up and running as well as gives me breathing room to work on the truck when time / shop are available. It will also be more ideal for my current plowing run which involves a day care center in the middle of town... Swinging that CC around reminds me of trying to back my dad's boat into a slip at Raystown Lake I know these engines better than any other (believe me that is not sayin' much) but it gives me some comfort in knowing what needs fixed, what doesn't, where things are located and I have this great community to help me out if I get stuck.

I like your line of thinking it's more or less the path I've been going down. Thank you.

 

[Zaggnutt]

I'm hoping someone with 'better tuned' ears than me listens to that video. I'm not good enough to diagnose by sound.

As for your coolant leak into the valley, my first step would be to replace that factory looking clamp with a good whatchamacallit clamp that you screw tight. They run about $2.00, and I guarantee you that connection will be tighter.

Edit: again, I'm lacking experience here, but I've read that bad injectors can cause a 'knock sound' that comes and goes. The metal in your pan alone indicates that is probably not the case here. But had you not found that, I would say move the injectors around and see if the noise moves.

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Thanks for the input. At this point I definitely need to drop the pan and have a look. I guess I am just posting the videos to give viewers / followers an idea of what I'm hearing and seeing. I bought new upper and lower hoses today. Will pick up clamps as well. Definitely have some issues in the cooling system based on the hoses swelling, etc. I have an aftermarket (Spectra) rad that the P.O. installed. I'm beginning to wonder if I didn't gunk up the oil cooler when I flushed the system like the other member is posting about. He replaced his rad and flushed it and let loose a bunch of stop leak into his system. Thread is called "Cooling Problem" I think.

I had zero problems with coolant in the oil before I flushed it.

 

[Zaggnutt]

After listening/watching (a picture is truly worth a 1000 words), it reminded me of a valve train noise (second video) like a weak/partially collapsed lifter or a bad rocker arm/fulcrum. I have heard similar clatter from gas motors with valve issues.

I do not have any experience with diesels having this type of issue. However, any type of valve issue would severely affect how a diesel engine would operate.

If indeed you had a rocker arm failure, it would account for the metal in the oil pan. Then again, a shot rod or crank bearing sure can shed a lot of steel too.

Have you used a Mechanic's Stethoscope to determine the location of the noise (upper or lower)?

As for the leak, mentioned earlier, the gaskets that separate the water pump from the timing gear cover and the cover from the block could be the source of your coolant entering the block. I have seen similar failures in Cleavland Blocks - similar set up. The steel plate that separated the water pump could be deteriorated as well allowing coolant to seep into the block.

You did indicate that you did not smell it at the exhaust. That's a good sign. After seeing your video, I would look more at the top end and front of the engine before tearing into the oil cooler. If you can isolate the noise and the coolant leak, it could save you from a lot of difficult work or at least help in what to do next.

You might get lucky and be at the front of a potentially bad situation before it goes catastrophic.

From my experience, a connecting rod with a bad bearing slaps around for a while after the engine is revved until it looses momentum and quiets down to a consistent sound (like a marble rolling around in the oil pan). The knocking never goes away.

No, didn't get that damn stethoscope yet. I was at Advance today snooping around but didn't see one. I put some Lucas treatment in it and it disappeared for a few minutes, but then came back to a quiet tap and then eventually back to the loud "slapping" metal sound. Anyway I had mentioned to stealth that I guess I am just trying to share as much info as possible. It doesn't really change that I have to drop the pan, etc. I am just sharing what I have to share. I can say that i've changed the oil once a few days ago and drained some and added Lucas and I haven't found any more shavings, but there also hasn't been a lot of time for wear either. Just a note.

The cooling system issue is bothering me because I don't feel like I have a definitive problem source yet. I am leaning towards tearing into the thermostat housing and replacing cleaning and resealing everything in there. I don't have an aftermarket temp guage for coolant or anything else just the Pyro so I feel like I am getting an incomplete picture of temps in the engine. Oil was very thin today but engine was hot when I drained it so difficult to tell how "thin". Coolant levels have not changed much.

I'm wondering if using gear oil would help keep it lubricated longer while the coolant is still mixing?

I guess if that damn leaking pressure tester from Advance wouldn't have made such a mess I may have seen a coolant leak around the water pump area. What a freakin' mess!

 

[LCAM-01XA]

I feel like buying the engine I may be just trading one bad engine for another. If it was being sold by a member I would be more inclined to go that route. Picking up another IDI does keeps me up and running as well as gives me breathing room to work on the truck when time / shop are available. It will also be more ideal for my current plowing run which involves a day care center in the middle of town...

Yeah, there is that about the used engine, it applies to any used engine, it's a gamble every time - usually it works out, sometimes it doesn't. If you buy an engine from a salvage yard those usually carry a 30-day warranty, but I'm thinking it being a diesel the price automatically jumps pretty high. So what's the new truck you're looking at, IDI 4x4 reg cab F250? Make damn sure it's not E4OD-equipped, those transmissions are a major hit-or-miss item, more likely to be a miss if truck was plowed with - that constant front and back at low speeds is a killer for automatics unless a big external cooler is present, and even so the constant engagement and disengagement of clutches and/or bands still causes accelerated wear inside.

 

[Zaggnutt]

Yeah, there is that about the used engine, it applies to any used engine, it's a gamble every time - usually it works out, sometimes it doesn't. If you buy an engine from a salvage yard those usually carry a 30-day warranty, but I'm thinking it being a diesel the price automatically jumps pretty high. So what's the new truck you're looking at, IDI 4x4 reg cab F250? Make damn sure it's not E4OD-equipped, those transmissions are a major hit-or-miss item, more likely to be a miss if truck was plowed with - that constant front and back at low speeds is a killer for automatics unless a big external cooler is present, and even so the constant engagement and disengagement of clutches and/or bands still causes accelerated wear inside.

Yep, you got it. It has a 5 speed. I gave it a once over and had the kid drive it out so I could look / listen and then I drove it back. Oil smelled / looked good, coolant was clean, overflow was clean, no visible leaks aside from the rear diff cover needs resealed. Engine sounded and ran strong. Inspected. Body has very little rust frame has surface only D60 swap in front. Bad: Front leafs are completely inverted, gp harness caps are rotted away, will need an IP eventually (valley pan wet). Leak at hose fitting for A/C. The black can on pass side that the small coolant hose runs into? I don't know what that thing does but the hose fitting where the rubber hose connects to metal tubing is leaking. Anyway, seems like a good truck to get into. Ugly as hell, but the body isn't beat up real bad just has a lousy black roller paint job over a really nice factory blue.

 

[Zaggnutt]

How'd you know the truck? Did you find the ad?

 

[79jasper]

Uhm, no. Do NOT put gear oil in your engine!
Might as well check the water pump also. Make sure to take a good look at the timing cover plate, and use sealer on the bolts that go through it.

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[Zaggnutt]

Uhm, no. Do NOT put gear oil in your engine!
Might as well check the water pump also. Make sure to take a good look at the timing cover plate, and use sealer on the bolts that go through it.

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Okay, okay it was just an idea! Will do on the wp and tcp. Thanks!

 

[LCAM-01XA]

How'd you know the truck? Did you find the ad?

Oh come on now, I'm not THAT bored! It was just a guess based on what you just said today about it being an IDI and shorter than your crew, and knowing one usually can't touch a good-running F350 4x4 in the middle of winter in snow country for that little money (you mentioned your budget in the beginning of this thread).

Don't freak out about the inverted leaf springs in the front, that's what the factory F250 leaves look like, and it's very likely when he swapped the D60 in he never switched out to the matching F350 spirngs. Normally that would result in a rather poor ride quality as the TTB springs are stiffer than the D60 ones, however you're fixing to hang a plow off that front so the stiff springs may work out good for that. Glowplugs harness ends are very often done for on these trucks, it's due to age and mileage (run time) in stupid-hot environment, nothing new there. No idea what the coolant can is on the passenger side, shouldn't be anything coolant related there but the hoses to and from the heater core, a picture would probably clarify what said can is. A/C you don't really need now, but it's probably just the o-rings that hardened and no longer seal properly, cheap fix for you.

 

[The Bus]

I found this on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYWV6J6MKOE

Does this sound like yours?

Here's another one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24DpUuIgkYs

 

[Zaggnutt]

I found this on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYWV6J6MKOE

Does this sound like yours?

Here's another one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24DpUuIgkYs

Sounds pretty much identical to video #2. The difference is it is on the passenger side. I didnt watch the whole video. Mine is louder from underneath the truck. I dont mean louder than the video just that my clatter tap rap is louder from underneath. We'll see what I find when I drop the pan. Got the kids this weekend so it will probably have to wait til next week.

 

[Zaggnutt]

Oh come on now, I'm not THAT bored! It was just a guess based on what you just said today about it being an IDI and shorter than your crew, and knowing one usually can't touch a good-running F350 4x4 in the middle of winter in snow country for that little money (you mentioned your budget in the beginning of this thread).

Don't freak out about the inverted leaf springs in the front, that's what the factory F250 leaves look like, and it's very likely when he swapped the D60 in he never switched out to the matching F350

Hahaha okay sorry. You're a detail guy. Most people would have missed those clues. Okay good to hear about the springs. I didnt know that. Found a company on ebay that will rebuild the harness for $50 + shipping bu t if I knew where to getthose caps I would do it myself. The "can" is stock I just dont know what it does. Its on my truck too. Holds the freon I think. Definitely a/c related. "Coolant" is not the right word thats my mistake. The hose runs to the hat exchanger? Condenser? That sits in front of rad. Sorry I have not explored the a/c system so I dont know exactly the fluid path etc. Anyway ithas a leaking oring for the ac. Not a big deal just info for the sake of full disclosure.

There was one thing that got my attention... the coolant level was overfull. When I pulled the rad cap off it was right there and the black paint in the rad around the filler neck was worn away like it had overflowed before. I figured a bad cap or maybe clogged overflow tube? Any major red flag there?

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Oh, that black can, that's the A/C drier and the liquid line coming from the condenser up front. If the refrigerant has some UV dye put into it at some point to locate a leak it will look green and slimy, again nothing to worry about at this point.

Regarding coolant, yeah it's read flag, on your past experience with coolant systems Joke aside, that's actually what you wanna see, when you pop the cap the rad should be full right up to the top. These are zero-air systems, meaning there should be no air anywhere at all except the upper half of the overflow bottle on the driver-side fender. Paint wear at the inside lip of the radiator fill neck suggests the cap is doing exactly what it should be doing - when coolant heats up and pressurizes some of it gets pushed past the cap into the overflow tank, as it cools down after shutoff it gets sucked right back in the radiator. Just make sure the cap is the correct psi, factory is 13 but many run 7 just to be safe (old radiator = dangerous territory), as long as it's not 16 psi you're good.

 

[Zaggnutt]

Oh, that black can, that's the A/C drier and the liquid line coming from the condenser up front. If the refrigerant has some UV dye put into it at some point to locate a leak it will look green and slimy, again nothing to worry about at this point.

Regarding coolant, yeah it's read flag, on your past experience with coolant systems Joke aside, that's actually what you wanna see, when you pop the cap the rad should be full right up to the top. These are zero-air systems, meaning there should be no air anywhere at all except the upper half of the overflow bottle on the driver-side fender. Paint wear at the inside lip of the radiator fill neck suggests the cap is doing exactly what it should be doing - when coolant heats up and pressurizes some of it gets pushed past the cap into the overflow tank, as it cools down after shutoff it gets sucked right back in the radiator. Just make sure the cap is the correct psi, factory is 13 but many run 7 just to be safe (old radiator = dangerous territory), as long as it's not 16 psi you're good.

Okay thank you for the useful info. I get what you were saying in the earlier posts about the engine being a "write off". I chatted with Farmer Frank today and he helped me understand the scope of what I was dealing with in my current engine. I wasn't seeing the bigger picture that the engine will need rebuilt one way or another if intend to keep it. It's not at all what I wanted to hear as I have spent many, many hours in the last year and a half working on anything that needed work inside and out. The reality he helped me understand was that if I need to pull the engine to fix the bearing then I should probably check the valves, guides, and springs. If I am checking those I should probably pull the heads and clean and inspect them. If I am going that far well I should inspect the pistons, rings, cylinder walls, etc. So it seems inevitable that pulling the engine is necessary regardless of the current issues.

 

[Zaggnutt]

I've considered just popping in a 7.3 engine, but I am unwilling to go that route without the engine coming from a member here. The only problem with going that route is that I may or may not have a shop to do the work. I have zero experience pulling/installing an engine and this project would be well beyond anything I have done. That is not to say that I do not want to do it. Just FYI.

Let me know if you have a 7.3 n/a or turbo engine you are interested in selling. I live near Harrisburg, PA and it would need to be here by Thursday of next week. Also, anyone near Harrisburg that would be willing to help me do the work who has experience doing an engine swap would be compensated with beer, food, some money etc. As long as it doesn't snow between next Thursday and Monday I should have a shop but I would have to check into that. Let me know.