Just to clarify, I meant the black paint on the outside of the rad on the "shoulders" of the fill neck - the base of the fill neck.
Coolant in Oil
- Thread starter Zaggnutt
- Start date
Just to clarify, I meant the black paint on the outside of the rad on the "shoulders" of the fill neck - the base of the fill neck.
So I have done three oil changes on the truck in the last week to try to manage the coolant intrusion and prolong the bearing life if possible. I used Mobile 15-40 from AA because it has been on special. The last two oil changes I used Lucas. I had talked to another OB member who asked if the oil was "milky" or "slimy" and if there was any film on the oil cap or RDT and there are none of those symptoms. The smell was still there from the RDT and the oil fill but not the exhaust. After my last oil change I drove the truck normally and the next day I found the oil looked like this. It looks and acts like oil right out of the bottle. Amber color, thick like normal oil... Notice that it is not dripping off the dipstick...
Keep in mind that this is after driving 20 miles to Harrisburg, then to Advance auto and then to here. Truck sat here for roughly 20 minutes before I checked it
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Keep in mind that this is after driving 20 miles to Harrisburg, then to Advance auto and then to here. Truck sat here for roughly 20 minutes before I checked it
Farmer Frank suggested I may be getting diesel in the oil, but there is no diesel smell and definitely a coolant smell. I did notice that it didn't seem to overfill when running on the rear tank so I am wondering if I have a pinch or blockage in the front tank fuel hose (I have manny tank switch and rubber fuel line) that is causing the return to back up? Either way there is still coolant getting in but since running on the rear tank only the smell has almost completely gone away. Still need to rebuild the oil cooler as I noticed what looks like some seepage at the front end but all these problems seem tied together.
I know this for sure. I definitely have injector dribbling and it is unfortunate that I can't replace them and at least eliminate piston wash from the equation... The extended amount of time this has been happening has most likely contributed to the possible crank bearing failure. I would also have to assume that diesel in fuel is probably eating away at every gasket and seal in the engine not designed for it.
I know this for sure. I definitely have injector dribbling and it is unfortunate that I can't replace them and at least eliminate piston wash from the equation... The extended amount of time this has been happening has most likely contributed to the possible crank bearing failure. I would also have to assume that diesel in fuel is probably eating away at every gasket and seal in the engine not designed for it.
79jasper
Chickenhawk
I would send off a oil sample.
Sent from my SM-T537R4 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-T537R4 using Tapatalk
Yep. Next step. Got it in the container from Blackstone right now.
Okay guys, I have an update and I am embarrassed to say that I've been leading everyone down the wrong path. I was not accustomed to the "sweet" smell of Rotella T motor oil so I am fairly certain that the "coolant smell" I was getting from the oil fill and RDT was actually the Rotella. I apologize for the mistake and I feel like pretty much of an ass for wasting everyone's time diagnosing a problem with an incorrect symptom. Yes it's true. I am a noob.
The metal in the oil change and the knock are still the main symptoms. I have stopped using the front tank and the oil level has stayed consistent so I may be looking at a problem with the my setup but I need to do more testing there. I haven't driven the truck since my last post but I have run it. I believe based on another member's input that I am getting diesel fuel in crankcase from bad injectors and that was causing the oil level rise. I have found seepage at a radiator hose that will probably explain the pressure drop during the coolant system pressure test. I purchased a compression tester to diagnose a bad valve with the new truck and to assess the status of this engine so I will report results. I am going to use a mechanic steth. to narrow down the source of the knock and possibly try moving a couple injectors to see if my main problems are being caused by them. I will track down the source of the metal shavings next. Oil test will go out soon as well.
I am sorry guys. I will do a better job verifying info before posting. Thanks for all your help.
The metal in the oil change and the knock are still the main symptoms. I have stopped using the front tank and the oil level has stayed consistent so I may be looking at a problem with the my setup but I need to do more testing there. I haven't driven the truck since my last post but I have run it. I believe based on another member's input that I am getting diesel fuel in crankcase from bad injectors and that was causing the oil level rise. I have found seepage at a radiator hose that will probably explain the pressure drop during the coolant system pressure test. I purchased a compression tester to diagnose a bad valve with the new truck and to assess the status of this engine so I will report results. I am going to use a mechanic steth. to narrow down the source of the knock and possibly try moving a couple injectors to see if my main problems are being caused by them. I will track down the source of the metal shavings next. Oil test will go out soon as well.
I am sorry guys. I will do a better job verifying info before posting. Thanks for all your help.
PwrSmoke
Full Access Member
***** matter occurs! No worries. The important thing is that lessons were learned and you had not yet torn the engine down while on this goose chase, which would have made it a harder lesson. You may still have a major problem but at least the direction is clearer. Good luck.
The Bus
Full Access Member
Think nothing of it. These forums remind me of the times when you see a neighbor working on his ride and everyone would stop by and give their two cents worth.
Good times. I really miss those shade tree days.
This forum rocks when it comes to people jumping in and working with you.
I have got some jack wagon "master" mechanic on a F150 forum trying to tell me what I experienced did not happen. I remember one of those "masters" telling me I could not rebuild a Variable Venturi Carb because it was not the problem. Rebuilt it. problem solved, and that car screamed afterwards.
If I had a nickel every time someone like that said things along those lines, I'd be somewhere else with women no one else could afford.
Good times. I really miss those shade tree days.
This forum rocks when it comes to people jumping in and working with you.
I have got some jack wagon "master" mechanic on a F150 forum trying to tell me what I experienced did not happen. I remember one of those "masters" telling me I could not rebuild a Variable Venturi Carb because it was not the problem. Rebuilt it. problem solved, and that car screamed afterwards.
If I had a nickel every time someone like that said things along those lines, I'd be somewhere else with women no one else could afford.
Aye, aye, aye... Welp. I'm back. So I was thinking I would run a compression test to give me an idea of the upper end of the engine to justify the work needed on the bottom end.... I tested per the Hayne's manual with Riot's variation of noting the first engine turn's compression and then the rest. 6 turns and stop.
1.225 400
2.220 400
3.280 490
4.275 450
5.200 475
6.200 500
7.200 380
8.250 490
Due to cylinder 3, 6, and 8 being annoying overachiever's cylinder 7 is out of 20% spec and 1 and 2 are on the cusp. And let me just say for the record that those of you who ***** about pulling the gp under the turbo have clearly not had to attach a compression test fitting into said gp hole.
That said, I would like to hear thoughts on these numbers. It could mean any of several different worn parts in the head or piston rings, but I am open to interpretations. Gotta be up for snow removal in an hour. No more thinky. Power *****. Nightsel. Thanks.
1.225 400
2.220 400
3.280 490
4.275 450
5.200 475
6.200 500
7.200 380
8.250 490
Due to cylinder 3, 6, and 8 being annoying overachiever's cylinder 7 is out of 20% spec and 1 and 2 are on the cusp. And let me just say for the record that those of you who ***** about pulling the gp under the turbo have clearly not had to attach a compression test fitting into said gp hole.
That said, I would like to hear thoughts on these numbers. It could mean any of several different worn parts in the head or piston rings, but I am open to interpretations. Gotta be up for snow removal in an hour. No more thinky. Power *****. Nightsel. Thanks.
PwrSmoke
Full Access Member
I presume the engine was warm when you did this test?
I wouldn't tear the engine down for those numbers necessarily. In a perfect, know-everything world, you'd also do a cylinder leak down test (google it) which could tell you the location of the cylinder leakage but I don't see numbers so bad that you can expect any major problems beyond the scope of a normal overhaul. If you do an overhaul, you know you are going to do rings and a valve job, which will bring those numbers back where they should be. Hopefully, you won't need to bore or sleeve the engine... big expense as you know.
If you have a lower end problem, you can count on turning the crankshaft and while, in theory, you could drop the crankshaft out and replace bearings without disassembling the rest of the engine, that's probably not the best long term idea unless you are short money. Half measures often come back for a meal of gluteus maximus.
I wouldn't tear the engine down for those numbers necessarily. In a perfect, know-everything world, you'd also do a cylinder leak down test (google it) which could tell you the location of the cylinder leakage but I don't see numbers so bad that you can expect any major problems beyond the scope of a normal overhaul. If you do an overhaul, you know you are going to do rings and a valve job, which will bring those numbers back where they should be. Hopefully, you won't need to bore or sleeve the engine... big expense as you know.
If you have a lower end problem, you can count on turning the crankshaft and while, in theory, you could drop the crankshaft out and replace bearings without disassembling the rest of the engine, that's probably not the best long term idea unless you are short money. Half measures often come back for a meal of gluteus maximus.
Nevermind. Anyway, yeah engine was warm. I did the passenger side first and I was stuck on cylinder 7? under the turbo. Probably on that one for an hour before I got it. I pulled the gp and couldn't get the connnector on the fitting because the turbo housing heat shield was in the way so I thought I would try the injector adaptor.... Nope. Threads wrong. Back to the gp. This time I got it but would you believe I lost a ratchet head and swivel back there? I spent 15 minutes minimum looking for that gd thing. I COULD NOT find it. It is stuck there somewhere.
So there was probably 1.5 hours between passenger bank and driver bank so those numbers would probably be possibly a little higher. This is what #7 injector looked like.... Wonder if there is a problem in that cylinder.... 
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Okay, so let me ask you a hypothetical... 1. Given the small pile of metal slivers I found on the oil pan magnet (WHY didn't I take a friggin' PICTURE!), the 2-3 quarts I got out when changing the oil, and the volume of this knock increasing all in the same period is there even a point to removing the oil pan, pickup, etc. to inspect it? Then inspect remove bearings look for crank damage and then put it back together to get it out of the shop? There are only 3 scenarios I can imagine here. 1. I pull pan etc and there is damaged bearing(s), I remove damaged bearing and crank is either damaged or not. If yes, than crank needs pulled so engine should be pulled in which case a complete overhaul would be the logical step. If no, then just put it back together and look elsewhere? I would still want to replace all the bearings just in case so then the crank would STILL need to be removed - right? I get valve covers off and inspect or do leak down and find a bad valve well springs and seals for sure, heads should be cleaned and spec'd by machine shop ($500 each local quote) that's not guide install or new valves, rockers, pushrods, etc. If I'm doing one valve well should probably do all of them to be safe (engine has 215k 190k of that unknown) well if valves then rockers pushrods, etc.
I don't have the cash flow to do any of this and the overhaul **** is time consuming, expensive, and takes a dedicated shop... Guess how many of those I got...This truck was supposed to be and I still want it to be my daily driver. The Regular cab and two kids plus work **** don't add up. Seems like I'm back to the option of replacing the whole engine with a plug and play used.
I'm not trying to rant I think I'm just trying to accept the reality of the situation here. If I am missing alternatives please fill me in.
Okay, been up 30+. Gotta sleep a little and get the girlies!!! If any of this doesn't make sense then blame my subconscious because I am pretty sure I may be sleeping already..... Thanks for your help guys.
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
There is a copper washer at the bottom of the bore in the head that the injector drops in, it's supposed to seal combustion gasses from escaping between the injector and the head surface. In your case this wasn't happening very well, see all the carbon buildup on the sides of the injector, that's combustion deposits/residue. If combustion gases can escape that way from the chamber, what's stopping clean air from doing the same? In other words your compression test number for that cylinder could be so low just cause the copper seal in question has been leaking for who knows how long, it would not necessarily meant there's anything wrong with the cylinder itself. If you feel adventurous pull #1 and #2 as well, wouldn't be surprised if they looked nasty too. Then pull say #3, #6, or #8, and see if they have clean bodies where they drop into the heads, if they look good then you have found your compression leaks in the forms of the wasted copper sealsThis is what #7 injector looked like.... Wonder if there is a problem in that cylinder....
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needlenose
Full Access Member
Something off with this. I have no experience working with IDI heads, but I wouldn't think that cleaning and pressure checking a head would cost $500.
