stealth13777
Full Access Member
Could it just be the cooler?
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Coolant in Oil
- Thread starter Zaggnutt
- Start date
I've browsed the threads but I'm not seeing much on testing the oil cooler. Anybody have a method? I guess a compression test on the cylinders would be a good next step to isolate if cavitation is the problem. Finished testing put everything back together. Truck started and idled good. I did notice a new problem though... When I turned the wheel to back out (I wasn't moving much) there was intermittent hard turning of the wheel. Why is it that when I mess with one tiny little thing the whole gd truck falls apart? It's like playing with a freakin' house of cards!
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I wonder if this belongs to Mel?
PwrSmoke
Full Access Member
The cooler is MOST likely. The only way to test the cooler is to pull it, mount it on a test plate and put in under pressure. The manual has the plans for how to make the test plate. I suggest you buy a manual! Anyway, if you are going to pull the cooler, just reseal it. The plat to test is optional. You can nick seals on installation and the plate would help you catch that but if you are clean, careful and use plenty of lube on the installation, it's not hard to get it right. I think you have a pretty strong direction here, follow the cheapest likely indicator first. Do the cooler and retest. Then you'll know!
needlenose
Full Access Member
No idea, even better deal if it is. I would forget the coolant problem and determine the source of the metal. I'm not a mechanic, but that much metal between oil changes would seem to indicate a significant problem. Maybe coolant in the c-case and a spun bearing or two?
Check the power steering pump reservior fluid.
stealth13777
Full Access Member
As mentioned above on the cooler, but I echo that I would want to get a look at the bottom end of that motor before dumping more time/money in it.
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The Bus
Full Access Member
Found this on thedieselstop.com
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f30/any-way-determine-if-its-cavitation-damage-246138/
Go down to no 7 by cdnsarguy:
Updated November 7, 2001
As a 7.3L IDI & Powerstroke Ford technician I would like to clarify cavitation erosion diagnosis. I work on these engines all day every day and have developed my own test for this problem which has yet to fail me.
To accurately pinpoint the cylinder leaking the full steps are as follows:
Warm up the engine
Remove all glow plugs
Remove valve covers, rocker arms, and pushrods
Using an adapter that threads into the glow plug hole, attach compressed air (100-175psi)
Wait 3 mins for each cyl being tested.
A failed cylinder will make the Coolant level slowly rise and then overflow from top of radiator. It won't blow out of the radiator, but it will be obvious.
On Power Stroke Diesels a false failure may be indicated due to a leaky bottom injector o-ring. So, before you run off in a panic, consider that the o-ring may be defective, effect repair of the o-ring in that cylinder, then re-test.
NOTES:
Valve train should be removed to allow the piston, in the cylinder to be tested, to drop to BDC when shop air pressure is applied. This insures the valves will be closed and the entire cylinder surface can be tested under pressure.
You can purchase an air pressure adapter at most tool shops (they normally are sold to adapt a compression tester to the glow plug hole)
The cylinders that are most prone to cavitation are listed in order. #8, #7, and #4. Be sure to test all cylinders as I have seen some of the other cylinders occasionally deviate from this norm.
Most coolant leaks into the cylinder will show as the glow plug tip will be wet on the bad cylinder.
I have had very good success sleeving these engines in my business, but the key is finding a machine shop that has done this specific repair before. You don't want yours to be the machine shop's first kick at the cat!!.
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f30/any-way-determine-if-its-cavitation-damage-246138/
Go down to no 7 by cdnsarguy:
Updated November 7, 2001
As a 7.3L IDI & Powerstroke Ford technician I would like to clarify cavitation erosion diagnosis. I work on these engines all day every day and have developed my own test for this problem which has yet to fail me.
To accurately pinpoint the cylinder leaking the full steps are as follows:
Warm up the engine
Remove all glow plugs
Remove valve covers, rocker arms, and pushrods
Using an adapter that threads into the glow plug hole, attach compressed air (100-175psi)
Wait 3 mins for each cyl being tested.
A failed cylinder will make the Coolant level slowly rise and then overflow from top of radiator. It won't blow out of the radiator, but it will be obvious.
On Power Stroke Diesels a false failure may be indicated due to a leaky bottom injector o-ring. So, before you run off in a panic, consider that the o-ring may be defective, effect repair of the o-ring in that cylinder, then re-test.
NOTES:
Valve train should be removed to allow the piston, in the cylinder to be tested, to drop to BDC when shop air pressure is applied. This insures the valves will be closed and the entire cylinder surface can be tested under pressure.
You can purchase an air pressure adapter at most tool shops (they normally are sold to adapt a compression tester to the glow plug hole)
The cylinders that are most prone to cavitation are listed in order. #8, #7, and #4. Be sure to test all cylinders as I have seen some of the other cylinders occasionally deviate from this norm.
Most coolant leaks into the cylinder will show as the glow plug tip will be wet on the bad cylinder.
I have had very good success sleeving these engines in my business, but the key is finding a machine shop that has done this specific repair before. You don't want yours to be the machine shop's first kick at the cat!!.
The Bus
Full Access Member
After researching the topic, I tend to agree with dropping the oil pan and taking a look. If a bearing has failed and is sitting in the oil pan (been there). it's a just a matter of time before you create "boat anchor".
Hmmm... all great replies gentleman. Thank youfor not giving up on her. I will not until it is scrap. I am severely limited on time and money and I only have a shop for one day here and there. I will attack the oil cooler project next. Have to figure out how to get from a to b first. Everyone cross your fingers for me that it is the oil cooler. I will have to figure out the metal shavings problem as well. I have never done any work like removing the oil pan. I cannsay it appears to have been done once before on this engine... and poorly sealed from the look.
Have any of you done a thread on droppin the OP? And, I will be honest here I have no idea what I will be looking for once there. And please understand I am willing to search for hours for info just interested in getting a direct link and any hints tips for those that have already done this... (pictures please!) Thank you thank you!
stealth13777
Full Access Member
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In this picture, the red is the rod caps (and two are removed, showing the bearing surface on the crank). Yellow is the five main bearing caps. In your case, the rod bearings are the ones more likely to be causing the problem, but while there I would at least look at one of the mains. Next picture is with the crankshaft and pistons removed and the main bearing caps loosely in place so as not to lose their positions. You can see some of the main bearings still in there. These pictures were taken during a rebuild. I had the motor removed and on an engine stand before I ever dropped the pan. You do not have to go that far, but if I was going to dig in there I would pull the motor. Oil cooler is a basic, inexpensive place to start. Definitely consult the body of knowledge (or w/e this forum calls it), there is a great how-to in there. On the oil pan; some do it without pulling the motor, but you still have to lift the engine. It'd be real tight with the motor still in the truck.
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The first picture is pretty close to what you will see should you pull the oil pan, but there will also be the oil pump and pickup. I do not have a picture with the oil pump installed. In these pictures the front cover and rear cover are also removed, plus a whole bunch of other stuff (like the intake and heads), but hopefully it helps.
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PwrSmoke
Full Access Member
May I respectfully point out that your first parts purchase should be a service manual. Preferably the factory service manual and/or the factory diesel supplement, a reprint of which is available online. I bought factory manuals when I bought my truck in '87 and even though I had training and experience working ton these rigs, I still used the manuals! In '04 I loaned them out to a guy... and he left town with them... but I got on eBay, found a set and had them in a week. If nothing else, get the old Haynes Diesel Engine Repair Manual (#1736) which covers the 6.9/7.3 and the 6.2L GM I think it's still in print but will be available used). A manual will answer many of your questions and give you a roadmap to most everything you need to do. Then in stead of asking a broad question like, "how do I rebuild my engine?" you can ask specific and narrowly focused questions that the gang here will have more time to answer.
The pan removal topic is being discussed right now here: <http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?71935-oil-pan-replacement>. An overview is given. It's not particularly easy the first time but may be necessary.
I am of two minds here. Given your need for transport, are you better served doing the cooler and just trying it, or going thru the difficult process of pulling the pan for inspection first? You get an answer both ways but if you do the cooler, run it and discover the a problem that way, you have wasted that time on the cooler. It's a crapshoot. It's easy for me and others to make pronouncements on what you should do but our circumstances are different. I have 40+ years working on cars and trucks... I don't see either job as particularly "hard." I'm also not under the gun as you are, time and financially-wise. Bear up! The sun will shine someday!
Okay, yessir. Very helpful. Like I had mentioned - it looks like the oil pan has been removed once before and resealed really sloppily with RTV or somesuch so at the very least there is one good reason to be there beyond inspection of the bearings.
So I understand what I am looking AT now (Thank you ), but what exactly am I looking FOR? How will I be able to tell the condition of bearings with the crank still in?
