Thanks PwrSmoke. I appreciate the no ******** answers. I just purchased the Hanes manual you suggested... Long overdue purchase. I have a line on another truck that I can hopefully get the deal settled on by Friday or Monday. We shall see on that one. I figure the oil cooler is my first target. It's a rebuild I have been waiting to do just based on the age of the truck I figured it was coming so I will tackle that first. A couple questions... you mentioned the "test plate" and "manual" and "instructions on how to build the plate are in the manual" The manual you are referring to is the Hanes 1736 I just bought, correct? Bought it on Ebay by the way so I will have it soon. I have read several threads on the rebuild so I know the additional info is available online.... Recommendations on where to buy the kit? I'm reading through DieselCrawler's tech article now....
Coolant in Oil
- Thread starter Zaggnutt
- Start date
Thanks PwrSmoke. I appreciate the no ******** answers. I just purchased the Hanes manual you suggested... Long overdue purchase. I have a line on another truck that I can hopefully get the deal settled on by Friday or Monday. We shall see on that one. I figure the oil cooler is my first target. It's a rebuild I have been waiting to do just based on the age of the truck I figured it was coming so I will tackle that first. A couple questions... you mentioned the "test plate" and "manual" and "instructions on how to build the plate are in the manual" The manual you are referring to is the Hanes 1736 I just bought, correct? Bought it on Ebay by the way so I will have it soon. I have read several threads on the rebuild so I know the additional info is available online.... Recommendations on where to buy the kit? I'm reading through DieselCrawler's tech article now....
I took a couple pics to illustrate but I am posting with my phone right now so I dont know how to upload. There is a leak where the upper rad hose connects to engine. Valley pan is always wet. I always assumed it was diesel leaking from under ip, but would a bad valley pan seal allow coolant into the engine?
LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Well if you have coolant leaking into the valley pan, it should leak back towards the rear of the engine where it should find the drain hole and after meandering down that passage should eventually end up soaking your starter. If said drain hole is plugged with junk (it happens with mileage, you'll be amazed at what junk the cooling fan will jam down under the intake given enough time) the coolant will just pool back there till it finds the grommet for the CDR valve - if said grommet is dried up and not sealing very well, coolant can leak past it and down into the engine itself. From there it travels down to the oil pan, sinks to the very bottom, the oil pump picks it up and shoves it thru the bearings, crank and rod bearings being the first to get the bad oil and lose proper lubrication and being under the highest load in the engine promptly self-destruct.
If you see metal in the pan that's a sign something let go. No amount of fixing oil coolers and coolant leaks will fix that issue, damage is already done. Dropping the oil pan allows you to pull rod and crank bearing caps and inspect the bearings under them - well technically that will be only half the bearing you see, and of course half the journal under it, but it should give you an idea of the wear condition of the whole joint. If the bearings didn't spin and the crank didn't get scored the road bearings should be able to be replaced one at a time without dropping the crank. If a main bearing went out crank will have to come out, at which point its engine pulling time.
If that other truck you're looking at is decent, just buy that and run it till winter's over. Then when you guys get a break from that evil cold the Weather Channel covers like all day every day, tear into the IDI.
Thanks LCAM. You've helped me through a couple issues on other threads. I appreciate the input. Starter, oil pan, etc. are all soaked. It is worse since the cooling system problems so I thought I would ask. definitely no pooling in the pan but it is completely saturated.
I understand that the engine damage has been done. I guess my line of thinking is: 1. Stop coolant from entering oil to prevent further damage. 2. Fix damage. I don't have a dedicated shop / garage / etc. to do the work so if I get under there to replace bearings and end up needing to pull the engine then I would likely have to put everything back together and park it somewhere for a while or best case pull the engine and park IT and the truck somewhere for a while. Lol. I have no income without the truck so that is why I'm somewhat stressed and I only have enough money to 1. buy another truck 2. fix mine but I have no vehicle in between since totalling my daily a couple weeks ago. I can't fix everything I can only budget one fix here and one fix there in a very small time frame so I have to be very, very sure of my path before I take it. No worries - everything will work out I know that. Just hoping to clarify the picture for those that are of the mind "welp just pull the engine and do it and there ya go!"
PwrSmoke
Full Access Member
No, the test plate plan is in the FACTORY service manual. I'm not sure it's worthy he effort to make it, frankly, because most people successfully reseal their coolers with no leaks. If you later decide you want it, I'll scan that page from the factory manual and post it. Most likely, it would take you longer to make the plat than to reseal the cooler. Up to you.
The worst part of all of this is that I have to continue driving this truck every day to get to work. It is an awful feeling knowing that my engine could blow any minute. Second to that is knowing I am doing further damage to my baby every mile I put on it.....
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This one is where IP goes into front cover. Ip is on right, camera facing passenger side.
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Here's another "knocking" video... Hopefully this works.... The puffing is from the RDT. Video was shot immediately after startup.
http://vid156.photobucket.com/albums/t29/Green_Willow_Landscapes/20150125_161323_zpsgmga6mb6.mp4
This one is a few minutes later. Almost identical but tapping is louder.
http://vid156.photobucket.com/albums/t29/Green_Willow_Landscapes/20150125_162129_zpsznyvy88x.mp4
It comes and goes I noticed. It's not there at startup, and it goes away on deceleration sometimes.
Here is the pressure test video... The drip is at the bottom of filter housing. Looks like a white spot disappearing... After 30 minutes more it had slowed down to almost nothing and the oil pan was dripping every 8 seconds or so.
http://vid156.photobucket.com/albums/t29/Green_Willow_Landscapes/20150125_194949_zpsrhyli4b6.mp4
Sorry for the shaky video! Hope I didn't make anyone sea-sick!
http://vid156.photobucket.com/albums/t29/Green_Willow_Landscapes/20150125_161323_zpsgmga6mb6.mp4
This one is a few minutes later. Almost identical but tapping is louder.
http://vid156.photobucket.com/albums/t29/Green_Willow_Landscapes/20150125_162129_zpsznyvy88x.mp4
It comes and goes I noticed. It's not there at startup, and it goes away on deceleration sometimes.
Here is the pressure test video... The drip is at the bottom of filter housing. Looks like a white spot disappearing... After 30 minutes more it had slowed down to almost nothing and the oil pan was dripping every 8 seconds or so.
http://vid156.photobucket.com/albums/t29/Green_Willow_Landscapes/20150125_194949_zpsrhyli4b6.mp4
Sorry for the shaky video! Hope I didn't make anyone sea-sick!
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Oh, okay. We'll see how it goes without it. Thanks for the update.
First pic's are what a good crank throw looks like. The streak in the center is between the two rods. Second pic's are what a rod bearing thats been hammered looks like. Bearings are out of my tractor.
Attachments
Okay, great! Very helpful thank you.
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LCAM-01XA
Full Access Member
Thanks LCAM. You've helped me through a couple issues on other threads. I appreciate the input. Starter, oil pan, etc. are all soaked. It is worse since the cooling system problems so I thought I would ask. definitely no pooling in the pan but it is completely saturated.
I understand that the engine damage has been done. I guess my line of thinking is: 1. Stop coolant from entering oil to prevent further damage. 2. Fix damage. I don't have a dedicated shop / garage / etc. to do the work so if I get under there to replace bearings and end up needing to pull the engine then I would likely have to put everything back together and park it somewhere for a while or best case pull the engine and park IT and the truck somewhere for a while. Lol. I have no income without the truck so that is why I'm somewhat stressed and I only have enough money to 1. buy another truck 2. fix mine but I have no vehicle in between since totalling my daily a couple weeks ago. I can't fix everything I can only budget one fix here and one fix there in a very small time frame so I have to be very, very sure of my path before I take it. No worries - everything will work out I know that. Just hoping to clarify the picture for those that are of the mind "welp just pull the engine and do it and there ya go!"
I understand your predicament well. That is why I suggested just buying that other truck, and rebuilding your engine later. On the other hand how much downtime can you afford? It may be cheaper to just pull your engine out and drop another one in its place, the good thing about these is that there aren't a million electrical harnesses and coolant hoses to disconnect and everything is fairly easy to get to. If you have access to a shop with an overhead crane or a big forklift the swap can be done in a day as all you do is take hood off and yank engine straight up, no need to mess with dismantling the front clip to gain access for a regular engine hoist thru there.
I'll be honest with you, that engine you have now is a write-off. Maybe it's salvageable with the right parts (likely crank and cam and bearings), but that takes time and another means for transportation and securing an income. Which are things you right now do not have. So basically the way I see it you have two choices: buy that other truck if it's in your price range and you deem it in good enough working order to keep you employed (carbed 351 engine with a 4-speed behind it is about as reliable and simple/cheap to fix up if needed as it gets), or grab that engine from the ad posted earlier and buy some foods and drinks for your co-workers and have them gang up on it and tear your damaged engine out and drop the "new" one in. Either way you're in and out of it and back to working and making money. Which is what the priority is.
Btw I can't watch photobucket videos for some reason, idk why but it's always been an issue for us. So I can't help you any based on what may or may not be in said videos, sorry.
stealth13777
Full Access Member
I'm hoping someone with 'better tuned' ears than me listens to that video. I'm not good enough to diagnose by sound.
As for your coolant leak into the valley, my first step would be to replace that factory looking clamp with a good whatchamacallit clamp that you screw tight. They run about $2.00, and I guarantee you that connection will be tighter.
Edit: again, I'm lacking experience here, but I've read that bad injectors can cause a 'knock sound' that comes and goes. The metal in your pan alone indicates that is probably not the case here. But had you not found that, I would say move the injectors around and see if the noise moves.
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As for your coolant leak into the valley, my first step would be to replace that factory looking clamp with a good whatchamacallit clamp that you screw tight. They run about $2.00, and I guarantee you that connection will be tighter.
Edit: again, I'm lacking experience here, but I've read that bad injectors can cause a 'knock sound' that comes and goes. The metal in your pan alone indicates that is probably not the case here. But had you not found that, I would say move the injectors around and see if the noise moves.
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The Bus
Full Access Member
After listening/watching (a picture is truly worth a 1000 words), it reminded me of a valve train noise (second video) like a weak/partially collapsed lifter or a bad rocker arm/fulcrum. I have heard similar clatter from gas motors with valve issues.
I do not have any experience with diesels having this type of issue. However, any type of valve issue would severely affect how a diesel engine would operate.
If indeed you had a rocker arm failure, it would account for the metal in the oil pan. Then again, a shot rod or crank bearing sure can shed a lot of steel too.
Have you used a Mechanic's Stethoscope to determine the location of the noise (upper or lower)?
As for the leak, mentioned earlier, the gaskets that separate the water pump from the timing gear cover and the cover from the block could be the source of your coolant entering the block. I have seen similar failures in Cleavland Blocks - similar set up. The steel plate that separated the water pump could be deteriorated as well allowing coolant to seep into the block.
You did indicate that you did not smell it at the exhaust. That's a good sign. After seeing your video, I would look more at the top end and front of the engine before tearing into the oil cooler. If you can isolate the noise and the coolant leak, it could save you from a lot of difficult work or at least help in what to do next.
You might get lucky and be at the front of a potentially bad situation before it goes catastrophic.
From my experience, a connecting rod with a bad bearing slaps around for a while after the engine is revved until it looses momentum and quiets down to a consistent sound (like a marble rolling around in the oil pan). The knocking never goes away.
I do not have any experience with diesels having this type of issue. However, any type of valve issue would severely affect how a diesel engine would operate.
If indeed you had a rocker arm failure, it would account for the metal in the oil pan. Then again, a shot rod or crank bearing sure can shed a lot of steel too.
Have you used a Mechanic's Stethoscope to determine the location of the noise (upper or lower)?
As for the leak, mentioned earlier, the gaskets that separate the water pump from the timing gear cover and the cover from the block could be the source of your coolant entering the block. I have seen similar failures in Cleavland Blocks - similar set up. The steel plate that separated the water pump could be deteriorated as well allowing coolant to seep into the block.
You did indicate that you did not smell it at the exhaust. That's a good sign. After seeing your video, I would look more at the top end and front of the engine before tearing into the oil cooler. If you can isolate the noise and the coolant leak, it could save you from a lot of difficult work or at least help in what to do next.
You might get lucky and be at the front of a potentially bad situation before it goes catastrophic.
From my experience, a connecting rod with a bad bearing slaps around for a while after the engine is revved until it looses momentum and quiets down to a consistent sound (like a marble rolling around in the oil pan). The knocking never goes away.
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