ZF 5 Speed Trouble

[porscheman87]

I have a 1988 F250 4X4 7.3 IDI that I had Towed because of a power steering pump failure. The owner of the towing service claims that he put the truck in neutral and the transfer case and it locked up the rear wheels after about 30 miles. It brought his tow truck to a complete stop. He had to drop the front and haul the truck backwards to get it the rest of the way. Now the truck will not go into reverse or any other gear with out killing the truck. It does not have any neutral unless I push in the clutch. It will go into a forward gear once in awhile. There is no grinding or anything or burnt clutch smell. Any Ideas? Should the towing service have any responsibility in this? I have never had any transmission problems before and the truck only has 130,000 miles on it. I really love this truck and want to get it back on the road.

 

[towcat]

I have a 1988 F250 4X4 7.3 IDI that I had Towed because of a power steering pump failure. The owner of the towing service claims that he put the truck in neutral and the transfer case and it locked up the rear wheels after about 30 miles. It brought his tow truck to a complete stop. He had to drop the front and haul the truck backwards to get it the rest of the way. Now the truck will not go into reverse or any other gear with out killing the truck. It does not have any neutral unless I push in the clutch. It will go into a forward gear once in awhile. There is no grinding or anything or burnt clutch smell. Any Ideas? Should the towing service have any responsibility in this? I have never had any transmission problems before and the truck only has 130,000 miles on it. I really love this truck and want to get it back on the road.

Bad news.
You can put a fork in your trans. It's done.
ZF5's are not designed to be towed with the engine shut off.
There is a bearing that supports the input shaft to the mainshaft that is only lubricated when the input shaft is turning.
You have a damage claim on your hands. Good luck getting the towing company owning up to it though.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

AAA towing specs for F-series (98 - 05 my book does not have old stuff) states max 35 mph max 50 miles for a front tow. With the transfer case and trans both in neutral.

Johnson's Guide (Ed Johnson is an actual tower) states 82 -02 F-series 35 mph 50 miles max for a front tow. With both the transfer case and trans in neutral.

If the fellow exceeded 35 mph at any time he just bought you a transmission. I can fax you the specs if you like.

I personally would only front tow a rear wheel drive vehicle far enough to get it off the highway, then turn it around and tow from the rear. There have been a couple exceptions where the vehicles were not rear towable due to size or mechanical issues.

 

[f350flatbed]

I just had mine towed and I asked how they were going to tow it, in neutral, from the front or back, etc. He said they absolutely do not tow it in neutral they would undo the driveshaft to tow it. Turns out they sent a rollback with a big flat bed and just put it on that. Sound like the towing company screwed up.

Paul B

 

[porscheman87]

Thanks for all your assistance, I thought it was from the towing but unsure what could of caused it. The Owner of the business is the person who towed the vehicle and will claim he did not know this about towing under 35 mph. I know he will not own up to this, any chance I can claim it on my auto policy and they can go after him? I will talk to the owner and try and reason with him, I am sure he has insurance for this kind of thing.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

There are a LOT of people that tow without insurance. Give him 2 days to make a decision, after that file a lawsuit for the damages.

I'm not perfect and have screwed up a couple times. The stuff I knew I did I paid in full. The stuff I "might" have done I paid half.

It is the towers' responsibility to know how to do his job properly. Frankly unless he has no clue, he KNOWS he did the damage and just hopes that you don't realize that it was his actions that caused it.

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

I know hindsight is 20/20, but using a AAA towing service is almost always worth it. In my experience they generally know more about what they are doing and if/when you have a problem, you have AAA to clean up the mess. Remember that insurance claims are all about documentation, so make sure you write down the time/date/topic of every conversation you have with the tow company.

Good luck

 

[Optikalillushun]

this is good news, in case my 88 ever takes a dump on me.

what about the E4OD (or generally any automatic) ? can that be towed with the trans and t-case in neutral?

what about the crappy M5ODs?

 

[typ4]

If the transfer case was in neutral it would not have locked up, there is an oil pump on the output shaft of BW cases to keep it lubed. He owes you a trans.
us mechanics have to be liable for our knowledge and so should any service industry. When I helped a buddy with a tow company he said it there is ANY doubt, drop the driveline.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I know hindsight is 20/20, but using a AAA towing service is almost always worth it. In my experience they generally know more about what they are doing and if/when you have a problem, you have AAA to clean up the mess. Remember that insurance claims are all about documentation, so make sure you write down the time/date/topic of every conversation you have with the tow company.

Good luck

No offense intended, but you don't know about how AAA works. AAA generally pays rates so low that it is unprofitable. I talked to a AAA driver locally, they were doing the AAA tows for $14. In general, the LAST person I would want towing my vehicle is a AAA contractor.

In the towing business AAA is known as "the evil empire".

 

[adrianspeeder]

Yup, don't think he put it the transfer case in neutral, or it's possible that it slipped back into gear.

Optikalillushun, it's not good to spin any tranny without the motor running. E4OD's can be cooked quick.

Adrianspeeder

 

[towcat]

No offense intended, but you don't know about how AAA works. AAA generally pays rates so low that it is unprofitable. I talked to a AAA driver locally, they were doing the AAA tows for $14. In general, the LAST person I would want towing my vehicle is a AAA contractor.

In the towing business AAA is known as "the evil empire".

+1.
when I had my trucks rolling, I certainly wasn't the cheapest tow. Most customers already had a bad experience with tow damage from AAA and was referred to me from their friends. I charged accordingly to the type of tow I was doing and the customer got good value for their money. My name was well respected amongst the antique collector circles and no amount of advertising can buy you that.

 

[towcat]

One more suggestion...
"dieselguy123" is selling a ZF5 for 4x4. I have no idea the distance between where you're at in relation to him but I'd have to say the cost of the part would be less than buying a whole truck.
one more thing....
Just for your own info and satisfaction...disconnect the drivelines and check to see if the trans and/or transfer case is seized up or not.

 

[porscheman87]

Towcat, I believe the damage is in the transmission because of not shifting into reverse and will not find neutral, but will find only 1 forward gear and will pull forward under power. I have not pulled anything other than the inspection cover off the transmission to check the clutch and flywheel, still has dual mass flywheel, appears no damage there and still looks like new.

 

[lotzagoodstuff]

Roboto and Towcat: thanks for the education on towing. I know a couple of folks who had to go after bad towing service via AAA and had luck getting monies recoup'd, but avoiding bad service is a better solution than trying to fix the repercussions. Thanks again for the explanation.

R. J.