Timing an engine...

[riotwarrior]

So Wayne shows up today for a check on his timing. Bull nose SC 2WD 6.9/ATS 088/C6/Gear Vendors, nice truck, filthy engine. Said he paid $300 for IP used

So set up meter, dial offset to 20 deg, check timing... 1.6 Hmmm K I recheck...yuppers 1.6. Then I undo the lock nuts and IP Zips off to retarded position. Tighten it down then recheck -3.6 sounds like *****, blue grey smelly smoke, yuuuuup wrong way ROFL.

RESET IP as far as I can physically to passengers side, against the stops it feels and lock down got it to 1.8 and he says it runs OK. Hmm...***

Engine was alledgedly rebuilt, he changed out the IP by removing it FROM the gear cover, so I'm sure we have an issue where at some point the IP was swapped and is out about 1 tooth.

We are talking about redoing injectors, and return lines and maybe GP too, as he has an either tube from inside cab to engine so it sounds like he may want to check for gear alignment in near future...

I recommended that if that's what he wants to do, we fix timing.

Start by removing all injectors, and bringing engine to TDC comp stroke and then we would REMOVE IP from gear cover, undo gear cover and through the Filler and or tach sensor hole push IP GEAR OUT, while lifting cover, this would allow one to keep it where is and see if the timing marks align correctly. If they do figure out why IP won't time, if out correct issue.

JM2CW on this but it's all I got for him.

Any suggestions?

 

[79jasper]

Sounds like a good POA.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

 

[OLDBULL8]

Any suggestions?

Yeah, kick his butt twice for not coming to you to change the IP in the first place.

Sounds like you have a job on your hands. But you have the solution to get it right.

 

[riotwarrior]

Bill, He swears he changed it by removing IP from gear cover, however he has NO clue about previous swaps done and that's where I'm thinking the issue stems from....

Paying shop rate too...not a member here

 

[icanfixall]

You must be registered for see images attach

Here ya go Al. In this pic you can see the drive pin location when all the gears are correctly lined up. If you set this engine at tdc number one and its not there you can easily fix it. But please take pics and loosen the drive bolts before you remove the housing and pump. Once its completely off the engine take the injection pump drive gear and draw a line from the "Y" timing mark to the top of the gear. Now just slip the gear down into the cam gear and use a square to make sure the line is straight up and down. You can demonstrate moving the gear advanced or retarded a tooth so others might learn what an out of gear time injection pump gear looks like

 

[riotwarrior]

You must be registered for see images attach

Here ya go Al. In this pic you can see the drive pin location when all the gears are correctly lined up. If you set this engine at tdc number one and its not there you can easily fix it. But please take pics and loosen the drive bolts before you remove the housing and pump. Once its completely off the engine take the injection pump drive gear and draw a line from the "Y" timing mark to the top of the gear. Now just slip the gear down into the cam gear and use a square to make sure the line is straight up and down. You can demonstrate moving the gear advanced or retarded a tooth so others might learn what an out of gear time injection pump gear looks like

And now you want me to take pictures...the audacity of you, thinking I would do such a think....whatever do you take me for? Really now Gary to think I would waste my time so others don't have to Hmmph! Pretty presumptuous of me aren't you now.

 

[icanfixall]

Al finding cylinder 1 tdc can be tuff. When the damper marks line up with the timing tab its either tdc or 180 degrees out. These engines do run but not very good 180 degrees out of gear timing. A few years back Ron was conferring with me about a horrible running idi that drove into his shop. He was trying to time it but it was not working correctly so we brained stormed it. I suggested it was 180 out. It was but sure was interesting the engine could even run..

 

[riotwarrior]

Thanks for the tips, and yes we've discussed that 180 out running before. I feel that with NO injectors it's not that hard to determine if #1 or any cylinder for that matter is at TDC comp or not by installing a leak down..you'll know right quick! Buwa ha ha ha ha...cause it is either firing at TDC.... or blowing smoke right (or AIR LEAKIN)? if it's out 180...

If I get PSSSSSSST out of a valve big time I will know it's not TDC comp and bring it around again till I get minimal leakage...

Helps having tools I know I know...not fair well neither is life so suck it up...

That will make all the difference, and worst case...check by removing VC and look at valves rockers etc.

This is just some brain storming in this thread, once and IF it happens I'll make sure I take tons of pics of what I do and provide full explanation of how and why and what I do!! You know the drill ...the tech 101 to add to my other timing ones

Thanks for the tips Gary!

 

[pastorjeep]

Gary, just my two cents, but if you remember on my old IP that I moved it as far advanced as it would physically go and it would only adjust to +3.2. We thought mine was one tooth off and it turned out to be the advance was worn out. Could this new/used IP simply be too worn internally?

 

[79jasper]

Always a possibility.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

 

[icanfixall]

Gary, just my two cents, but if you remember on my old IP that I moved it as far advanced as it would physically go and it would only adjust to +3.2. We thought mine was one tooth off and it turned out to be the advance was worn out. Could this new/used IP simply be too worn internally?

Yes this too can play into the problem but you would surely have more issues going on too. Good call too. I don't know everything but I sure try to know most everything. This site still amazes me what what I find I don't know or have forgotten..

 

[pastorjeep]

By the way Gary I was rereading your sig and was wondering about dyno numbers on your engine, and the effect you have experienced with the Teflon coated pistons? I am at 304xxx miles and am burning two quarts every 500 miles. When the truck is running you can look in the intake and watch a thick stream of smoke come out of the cdr! So I have made a couple of offers on rebuild-able 7.3 cores locally. I am thinking in terms of longevity/reliability more than power, but a few extra horses won't hurt.

 

[riotwarrior]

Gary, just my two cents, but if you remember on my old IP that I moved it as far advanced as it would physically go and it would only adjust to +3.2. We thought mine was one tooth off and it turned out to be the advance was worn out. Could this new/used IP simply be too worn internally?

K that was discussed with my customer and he swears that IP is top shelf..ok sure used IP good...check...

I am not convinced ....

By the way Gary I was rereading your sig and was wondering about dyno numbers on your engine, and the effect you have experienced with the Teflon coated pistons? I am at 304xxx miles and am burning two quarts every 500 miles. When the truck is running you can look in the intake and watch a thick stream of smoke come out of the cdr! So I have made a couple of offers on rebuild-able 7.3 cores locally. I am thinking in terms of longevity/reliability more than power, but a few extra horses won't hurt.

Please, if you are off subject refrain from this type of deviation within this thread, if needed create your own new thread or PM Gary..

I'm for keeping my threads on track when I can, nothing personal....those who know me here know it's just how I roll

 

[icanfixall]

Al rolls. The rest of us bounce. Just could not resist Al....
Al I'm sure you will find it out of gear time or a shot pump. The owner probably wont feel the shot pump is an accurate diagnosis but so. Might see what happens anyway. Personally I'm looking forwards to the pics and vids...

 

[pastorjeep]