The little 300D that could.

Josh Carmack

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I burned my first batch of WO today in the little blue Mercedes. Ran and starts like a champ, but I'll admit it is a weak "premium" mix. it's mostly transformer oil and 5 gals of WMO and 5gal Diesel for a total of about 40 gallons. Mixing up another batch tonight that'll be WMO 90. I'll run that this coming week on the mail route. burned half that premium mix today on the route, and looking for my lost dog.
 

Brad S.

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Josh do you think these cars run differently on wmo, then our beloved IDI's?
Or does the transformer oil have less "energy" in it???
Someone close to where I live on CL had a late 80's - early 90's BMW for $1900.-Drool
If I didn't have my 7.3 all apart might have jumped on that....
 

Josh Carmack

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Funny you ask that, I don't jump straight into uncharted territory, and it has to be charted by me before I trust the chart,lol. Honestly, I knew it would run, but I was curious to know how well the smaller nozzles would take to the more viscous fluid, and how much it would smoke. I couldn't care less how much my old ragged F350 smokes, but the little Mercedes that I put on the mail route, I don't want to see huge plumes of smoke every time I pull to the next box. LOL, some folks already don't like the mailman, don't wanna give em any more excuses! I do plan on adding water injection, to help combat the nasties.
 

Josh Carmack

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Update;

The fourth 40 gallon batch of fuel I have run through the blue car, first "premium" batch ran fine, the second batch slowly progressed into running worse. Slight single cylinder miss kept getting worse, to the point of it coming close to a full miss. Idled, started, and ran good once under boost. No noticeable miss til under power but before boost. Doesn't seem to jump cylinders, seems to always be the same one. No real amount of smoke to speak of at any time other than idling. What stumps me is it progresses instead of being instant. The first time i wrote it off to being a bad batch as it was the batch I commented about having a lot of trouble with. Dumped a couple 1/2 tanks of diesel in it and it slowly started running better. Third batch seemed to run fine, and didn't present any problems. Forth batch and, the miss slowly came back today on the mail rt. My wife's car doesn't like to start on the same batch, but otherwise runs fine, a little faster and more power than DSL. BUT her car doesn't see any idling, and has not completely burned it's first tank full. My car sees tons of idling, tons of 3/4 throttle jaunts of 100 feet or so and 1000 to 1500 miles a week. 400-500 of those weekly miles are 1/2 to 3/4 throttle jumps 100-1000 feet at a time. Fuel mileage falls below roughly 15MPG on the oil while the missing is going on, and stays above 18-19 ish when everything is in order.. Keep in mind that most mail vehicles no matter the engine or size struggle to get above 15 on a rt.


Anyone have any ideas?

I do have leaking delivery valves that seems to be isolated to one or two cylinders, that will be corrected in two weeks after my regular carrier comes back from vacation. The car has unknown miles the odometer gave up the ghost at 189,000. Going by wear, and assumptions it is close to or above 250,000. The car starts extremely well in cold temperatures on DSL cannot speak for oil as it hasn't run it in the cold. Even on oil I do not have to give it even half a glow cycle before it fires right up cold with half throttle.

Coking?
Bad pattern caused by coking?

I couldn't tell but I thought I might have heard some injector knock in sync with the half firing today, but I was running on the plus side of 100C. Due to fan noise I was having trouble hearing rather it was the slight miss making vibration noises, or it was injector knock. And honestly no too sure of what injector knock sounds like. I had to remove the belt driven fan for unrelated problems and am using a controller on the aux electric fan to push air. Unless I get into the turbo alot the electric fan keeps up fine in the slower moving parts of my routes, and at higher speeds ram air does a better job than even the belt fan did.

I'm planning on swapping injectors out of the 350SDL into the 300D because they only have 87.000 on them. Will do that the same time I replace the delivery valve seals. And really need to rule out the leaking seals aren't the problem themselves as they have been known to cause missing issues, but due to viscosity i wonder because on DSL they leak fast enough to constantly drip, on oil the leaks slow to a seeping.
 

Brad S.

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In that first section you talked about the "creeping" miss, thinking a bad injector as well.
My dad was a rural mail carrier for a lot of years I remember how hard that kind of driving is on any car. With regards to the fuel maybe try running a higher percentage of a diesel kleen or whatever you might be using...????:dunno
Maybe increase your transformer percentage in the next batch, little thinner oil might help with the "missing".
Maybe a little RUG in the next batch???:dunno
Just thinking out loud, it does seem like they are fussy with the type of "fuel" they burn.
 

oztinker47

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Sounds like a carbon fouling issuse caused by prolonged idling and low speed driving, diesels tend to run cool at low speeds and loads. Had a similar problem with a 1983 300sd, and that's what it turned out to be
 

NO_SPRK

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the om603 is not as strong of a waste burner as a om616 or 617. aluminum head keeps the temps down, not good for running WMO/WVO

turbo helps some but this engine also spins alot faster then a 617. its a more refined engine. the injection pump is still a strong p-pump but the injectors and pop pressures are different
 

Josh Carmack

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I forgot to mention, this batch is mostly heavy hydraulic oil some RUG, percentages would be HH 85%, WMO 5% and RUG 10%.

NO_SPRK I'll have to agree there, this is the first and only diesel I have ever seen that easily turns 5K on the tach. When tuned right these little 603's RUN! Too bad the 3.5L 603 has the common bent rod failure symptoms or I'd drop it into one of these light little 300's. I'm trying to work out a trade with a junkyard on a 300SD they have in great shape that needs a tranny. It has the more popular 617 turbo-ed.

Cranked the car today to find it had a definite knock, I assume it's an injector because it is way too high pitched to be a rod or anything else. Went away as soon as throttle was given. It's sitting on a half tank, will fill with DSL in the morning and report the results after I get off rt tomorrow if it makes it, that knocking gets worse, I'll forfeit the rt and head home.

What are common causes of injector knock, and anyone know what is actually happening during injector knock? Is it drizzling fuel too early, popping off too early or?
 
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Armo

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Have not dealt with a Mercedes diesel but i thought i read some where that the injectors have a 2 stage spray to reduce the clack sound of a diesel. I think i read that with wvo it was a common issue of the lower pressure earlier stage spray to fowl. I could be completely wrong though since i have never worked on one.
 

JPhauler87

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Sounds similar to the issues I had with my OM603. Run $20 of #2 through it and some standadyne and it would clear right up. Borderline miss on one cylinder and a lot of white smoke.

Have you checked the timing? I originally thought mine needed motor mounts until I adjusted the timing forward about 5 degrees, it smoothed out the idle a ton, more power and less smoke. I did not have the tools to check the timing beforehand, this thing was a cheap beater I used as an experiment... I just knew the timing would retard over many miles from chain wear so I bumped it a few degrees.
 

Josh Carmack

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Update #2;

Pumped 40$ worth of No2 in it today and headed out on the route, consumption was higher than normal, but I was ******* the throttle in an attempt to burn carbon out if there was any. Normally burn 1/4 to 3/8th of a tank round trip, and burnt just under a half at 189 miles. Thats a little higher than normal. Slowly started getting better, but it still lacks power. Exact same symptoms as last time, that were again cured by hard running and No2. Gonna pull injectors and swap out, then replace the nozzles in these and re shim, for a spare set.
 

NO_SPRK

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I'm no expert but I never put gasoline in a diesel, even with WVO SVO. Kerosene or jet fuel works too.
 

Josh Carmack

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Update,

I had been babying this car's fuel choices starting out. It really sucks to be stranded on a mail rt waiting on someone to bring you a car to switch out in and then them figure out how to get back home. I didn't want that to happen. I was blaming it's problems on the "sub standard fuel", coking and idling. BUT this car has other issues, I mean it was a 850.00/900.00 junker. (can't remember exactly what I paid, it was definitely less than 1000) it has the common leaking delivery valve problem, worn turbo-shaft and other problems to be expected from a < 200,000 mile car. I was making assumptions and guesses by what I was observing. Now after running about 275 gallons through it with some diesel thrown in between fillings, I'm beginning to change my line of thinking.

The delivery valve leaks oscillate from mild to terrible. Some days it's not noticeable I can only assume its due to the high amount of gear oil I am running as the heavier the fuel the less it leaks. Idling for three or four minutes only leaves a few drops on the ground. On the batches with lighter oils, the leaks are worse, and on D2 they are terrible. So bad, that I notice as much as 1/4 tank of fuel consumption more on a rt when running a tank thats mostly D2, AND puddles of fuel under the car in just a minute or so sitting at a box. The leaks have worsened since I purchased the car, repaired it's most serious problems and put it on the road. After making it road ready, It took me several weeks to build my right seat pedals and put it on the mail rt, where it can see as much as 1400 miles in 6 days. Max mileage clocked in a 7 day period was 1630 according to Vezma. The last two tanks put in the car were 80-90wt gear oil with NO thinner. On these last two tanks it has run like a champ compared to what it was doing. I must note this was clean gear oil from a factory that shut down. We originally thought it to be a heavy weight hydraulic, but have confirmed it to be gear oil.

The problem with my current design in my processor is the fuging tank has it's pickup located high enough to leave 15 or so gallons in it when pumped out. While I did suck the tank out with my super sucker after the batch that I know went into my cars wet it most likely had a little left over to continue contaminating the next couple batches. I am now sure there is NO moisture in the fuge tank.

I have decided the BAD batch of fuel I stupidly rushed into the tanks one day (cause I needed enough fuel RIGHT NOW to fill my truck tank and my car for the hole week) was the largest part of my immediate problems. I am still getting condensation in the filler neck and cap every time I open it when it's cooler out, and have blinded two filters from what I can only assume is from water off that batch. I have purchased a water block filter to add to my finishing filters, but did not have one at the time, and it is still sitting in the box in the shop.

Back to the point though. While there may be some water still in my car, I now feel the fuel going in the last two weeks was dry. In the last two weeks aside from a persistent injector knock at idle it has progressively gotten better, and I am going to refrain from putting in D2 in it until it acts otherwise. The last two tanks were pure gear oil, and the last tank specifically had the car running on pure gear oil as the tank was 50 miles past the refill light when I filled it up. One would assume if it simply didn't like the heavier waste oils it would naturally HATE the pure 80/90 NO RUG added on my last fuge batch It's actions speak otherwise. While on the heavy batch the delivery valves have leaked very little and aside from injector knock it's running great on it.

I called up Mr. Randy Drost from Executive Auto in Blue Springs MO and had him send me another set of valve seals cause my dad inadvertently through them in the trash. While on the phone I explained the cars actions to him without telling him the type fuel it is on and the first thing he said was change the seals. I didn't want to tell him my fuel was out of the ordinary because I didn't want him to do as a lot of other experienced Mercedes mechanics have done and immediately write it off as my fuel choice.

Bottom line is it runs great now with no miss, and good acceleration, and the problem seems to be more linked to the amount of leaking at the delivery valves than anything else. I have been saying I'm going to change them, and the only time I did have a chance to do it I discovered my dad had cleaned his truck out and thrown them away not know what they were. Got another set of washers and seals, and as long as I don't get called into work much this week I'll change them. I will also attempt to find the knocking injector and replace it at the same time.

I'll post and update in a couple more weeks.
 

Josh Carmack

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I bought it way back right after I bought these cars because all three of them have that problem, mine being the worst far and away. I really do appreciate the offer though.
 

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