Remove Wtr Pump to Install Eng/Trans Unit?

[trj]

OK, I need a little help here from those of you who have been there. I am working on a 2 wheel drive 1992 F250 with a 5 speed ZF tranny, IDI of course. The problem is I tried to take the engine/trans unit out without removing the water pump but was getting very close to damaging the A/C condenser that sets just in front of the radiator. Some of the fins did get bent up. I just couldn't get it out at any angle with it on, so I pulled the water pump which gave me the clearance I needed. Now I am going back in with it and have the same problem. I need to know if this is typical or am I missing something??? It is much easier to do the work while it is out where I can work on it....and then there is the plate behind the water pump that has to go on and all it's complications too. I'd rather put it all together while it's out if I can. Is there something I am missing about getting it back in WITH THE WATER PUMP INSTALLED? Anyone been down this road??? I'd sure appreciate some comments!!
Thanks for the help.
Tom

 

[NCheek]

Why not remove the transmission from the engine? If you were going to leave them together, you probably should have removed the radiator support to give yourself plenty of room.

 

[trj]

So are you saying it is typical that they won't go in as a unit the way I am trying to do it on a 1992 2WD?
I will take the tranny back off and install it under the truck if that is the case....It's just harder....but not as hard as dealing with the pump and plate complications on the front of the engine.

 

[david85]

I didn't know its even possible to install the engine and tranny assembled with these engines. They're bigger than even so called big blocks. I removed and installed my engine by leaving the transmission in the truck. Some even take the front clip off.

 

[trj]

Yours is a 4 wheel drive David. I understand that 4 WD has to be done that way. Do you have hands on experience with the 2 WD install?
Thanks,
Tom

 

[fsr7]

Tom - I've never swapped a motor in a 2wd, but I have done several 4x4s and have always seperated the tranny - I really think you will save yourself time seperating the two. I did pull a motor/tranny out of an 85 parts 4x4 less the tcase, and I would not have gone that route if I had any intention of putting it back together. With the zf, backing it off the motor should be a breeze - no torque converter bolts to worry about. I did a complete 4x4 zf5 swap in a 93 a couple weeks back in under 3 hours - they are not a difficult beast to disconnect and let hang. Looks like you're near me - feel free to shoot me a PM if you need a hand.

 

[david85]

Yours is a 4 wheel drive David. I understand that 4 WD has to be done that way. Do you have hands on experience with the 2 WD install?
Thanks,
Tom

Yes, I have a transfer case in there but I remember how tight the engine was going in, and I am suprised you were even able to get the set out even with the water pump off the engine. Doing it with a gas engine is not a big deal, but these diesels are big bulky engines.

 

[k_williams1982]

Just to get the engine out, I've always had to unbolt the engine and transmission and pull the radiator. I've swapped out a 7.3 with a 6.9 in a '88 4x4 and replaced a 7.3 in a '90 2 wheel drive.

 

[discbrks]

2WD experience here - but mine is an automatic. I pulled only the engine, left the trans in the truck, pulled the radiator, but left the condenser in. It was tight, but it came out fine. Looking back, I don't think you could get them out as one unit without removing something. Take the trans off, put the w/p back on, and install them separately.

 

[Agnem]

Never done one without the front clip being off. Not sure I would try it. I don't think my crane would be able to lift it high enough. I'd have to take the front wheels off for sure. I think if we all had the capability (the right lift and space to do it) it would make sense to do it the way all the new ones are dealt with. Just take out 6 bolts and disconnect a few hoses and cables, and off comes the whole body.

 

[Devilish]

If you pulled them out connected then you can put them in the same way. Problem is it can be more difficult. Problem relates to the transmission position. using a floor jack to support the trans where the trans mount goes you can jack the trans up so it barely touches the cab then lower engine 3-6 inches then lower trans to allow it and the floor jack to shift position then raise again. You keep doing this until you get everything where you need it. Oh and jacking up the front of the truck a bit can also help by changing the angle the unit needs to fit and also by preventing the end of the trans from being damaged from the ground. Hopefully you are using an extra heavy duty engine hoist or a forklift. That's way too much weight for a harbor freight or kragen hoist. If that is still doesn't help then unbolt the front clip and shift the clip forward effectively giving you more clearance

 

[Devilish]

Never done one without the front clip being off. Not sure I would try it. I don't think my crane would be able to lift it high enough. I'd have to take the front wheels off for sure. I think if we all had the capability (the right lift and space to do it) it would make sense to do it the way all the new ones are dealt with. Just take out 6 bolts and disconnect a few hoses and cables, and off comes the whole body.

In a perfect world it would be an easy task. I've done many front wheel car engine replacements where it is mandatory to drop eng/trans as a unit out the bottom by removing accessories and crank pulley, unbolting all trans mounts , then tilting whole unit and separating. Many mechs thought that was crazy and I'd run into trouble upon reinstallation.

 

[trj]

Ok, I guess I'll just pull the tranny back off. I don't look forward to wrestling with that 5 speed under there but guess it makes sense. The older I get the less I enjoy this stuff. It's cold out there now. Thanks for all the responses and advice. It sure helps to have people who have been there to go to when you need it!!!

BTW, can someone direct me to the thread showing how to R&R the timing gear and case up on top for the injector pump and get the timing back correctly? I really didn't want to take it off (I assume I have to disconnect all the injector lines from the pump???) but guess it makes sense to do it with the plate R&R under the wtr. pump.... and then the tach sensor will be there too. I plan to use a 7.3 cover and gear. They can be interchanged with the 6.9 (including the gear) can't they?

MANY THANKS for the feedback!!!!
Tom

 

[Agnem]

Take the passenger side fuel screw access plate off the bottom side of the I.P. Rotate the engine until the fuel screw is visible, and insert the correct size (5/32" ?) allen wrench into the screw. Now when you remove the I.P. gear tower cover, you will have a way to index the gear for reinstalation.

 

[trj]

Great simple solution. Thanks Mel!