Oil Sample

Mulochico

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That is not necessarily terminally high lead, but it ain't good. I don't see much else. Bad bearings are usually lead AND tin AND copper. Your copper and tin are low. A good sign.
Good point! ;Sweet

Was this last test with the Lucas? If so, it didn't seem to thicken the oil out of grade, but the test prior was thickened out of grade (for whatever reason). The last test was 20.3 cSt at 100C (212F, the usual temp for the viscosity grade rating) and that is at the top end of 50 grade territory, nearly into 60 grade... and that's too thick!
This current test was w/o Lucas. The one before it was the one with the Lucas

What filter are you using? If it's not the FL1995 (PSD) or an equivalent, there is another positive step if you are worried about contaminates. The FL784 is a low efficiency filter. The FL1995 is a high efficiency filter.
Yes, I have been using the 1995 filter for the last 5+ years

The oil pressure test will be a good test of overall bearing condition. That should be your next test. Factory specs (from the factory manual) on thoroughly warmed up oil are: Idle= 10psi or higher, 2200 rpm= 40-70 psi.
That is coming soon. Good info to know.

PS- You had coolant in the oil previously and in high amounts, it can be very ******* bearings. What was the cause of the previous high coolant?

Quote from the test on 7/17/14: "The only unusual find potassium, which could indicate coolant. We don't see any other signs of antifreeze, though (sodium is fairly low, and no moisture or bearing wear was found), so this may be from a harmless source. We'll see how trends develop."

There was no other signs and I could not identify any cause for it. Potassium went back down. :dunno

I knew I would get good info from the brotherhood. As far as "you would be allowed to run in circles and scream incoherently based on one test." Not there yet. Just looking ahead and trying to catch any potential problem as early as I can to get this truck to last. :D
 

Mulochico

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That oil sample looks pretty good and only 1 Qt. added in 3225 miles suggests you have good tight rings. Never used Lucas, but have used STP which is probably the same. Thing is, never add it in cold, always heat it up so it flows easy so it can mix with the CC oil readily. With 12 Qts. CC oil and 10 Oz of Lucas, the ratio is .025:1 Oz. When Delo changed there oil formula from the 400 to the 400 LE, I went with Castrol GTX oil myself. I believe the change had something to do with 2004 and up Diesel engines for the emissions control in them.
I went thru an online Oil comparision course from UNOH called "Fact or Friction", Delo 400 LE was listed good for the 2004 and up Diesel's but was down the list for the 2003 and earlier Diesel engines.
I had a metal working Lathe, while taking a pretty heavy cut, I used to use just motor oil, had a can of STP with a little in it, brushed some on a shaft I was cutting, I'll tell you, it made the smoothest shinny cut I ever saw, actually made the cut deeper by about .003 IIRC.

I agree that everything else looks good. Most of any leaks I have are valve cover gasket related. Had them sealed tight then did the lifters and the passenger side is leaking some again. Another project to tackle soon!
 

BDCarrillo

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Quit putting bananas in your fuel tank and the potassium will go down...
 

Mulochico

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Well, I finally got the gauge in. I went electrical to avoid potential oil in the cab. :eek: The #'s were a bit low on the high speed: idle=20 psi. 2200=41 psi with the Delo. I changed the oil (went with Valvoline Premium Blue), Not much change: Idle=21 psi. 2200=39 psi.

I am not one to have a lot of confidence with electrical (I know, why did you go that route? Just trying things out :dunno). So, I had a mechanical gauge in the garage, hooked it up, and oh boy!!!! Much better: Idle=29 psi. 2200=50 psi. No problem with it. I just need to keep the difference in mind when driving.

I guess I will just keep driving and doing samples. ;Sweet

Thanks for all who had input. I am paranoid when it comes to vehicles and maintenance. I guess that's why my old Jeep that I put 235,000 miles in 14 years on and got rid of 10 years ago is still on the road with 315,000+ miles, no rebuild, and still passing smog in CA. I just want to keep my old girl healthy. :D
 

idiabuse

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Nothing is wrong with the UOA, if they tell you you have a worn set of rod bearings are you going to pull it out and make the crank journals round again with new rod bearings and a whole new rest of the engine?
No that is not realistic.
Lead comes from worn bearings, normal in a older engine. blame the dry cold starts on that.
All the other fields looked aok to me.
No coolant is most important for that report.

Potassium and Sodium detect coolant additives
but the latest sample is still to low for any flagging.
 

Clb

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So is this report the $80 one you pay extra for?
 

Mulochico

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The report I did was the basic Blackstone Lab (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) report ($25). I also paid $10 extra for the TBN (total base number) test to see how the oil is holding up and if I want to extend the oil change.
 

Clb

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If I recall' ???
For $80 they will TELL YOU what you are seeing???
I don't know for sure, might give em a call .
Don't quote me
 

PwrSmoke

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All Blackstone tests come with sometimes colorful and entertaining commentary and recommendations. This is what makes them the most popular consumer-level oil analysis lab. They also have an informative newsletter and a website that you can learn a lot from.

The high buck analysis??? You may be thinking of the Dyson analysis, where a Tribologist of some repute prognosticates in great detail... and that costs a fair bit extra. Probably not worth the money for ordinary stuff, but if you had a potential problem or had done trending (very regular analysis), he could provide very useful commentary. As I have said before, a single test doesn't say much about engine health (unless you catch something bad happening) but it does give you a good idea on oil health.
 

Mulochico

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As I have said before, a single test doesn't say much about engine health (unless you catch something bad happening) but it does give you a good idea on oil health.

This was my 3rd test. I try to test before, or at, each oil change as I wasn't sure of the internal condition of the engine. I am getting more gauges and just looking at what comes up to learn. Thanks again to all as this has been informative.

I am also planning a 1,600+ mile round trip (To Seattle pulling a trailer loaded down with a friends stuff) next month and want to get the old girl as prepared as possible. The usual maintenance, spare parts, etc. Should be fun. ;Sweet
 

jim_22

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Wow, paying in installments for bad news that you can't do anything about is just not right. Just sayin'.
 

Mulochico

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Wow, paying in installments for bad news that you can't do anything about is just not right. Just sayin'.

Some of us are just gluttons for punishment. :D I'd rather track potential problems than be surprised a long way from home. This way I can plan for expected troubles instead of scr*wed by what I didn't know.

To each his own.
 

PwrSmoke

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Wow, paying in installments for bad news that you can't do anything about is just not right. Just sayin'.

That's definitely the "glass half empty" outlook! ( : < 0) Plus, there are plenty of things a guy can do based on oil analysis. You can change the oil type, grade or maintenance interval. You can make a repair (when clearly indicated... and sometimes it is, unlike this case). You can change the operational situation. Also, most times, you get a GOOD report, which means you have nothing TO do. Knowledge IS power and oil analysis is that. Whether it's cost effective in every case, is another question.

The danger in oil analysis, and this may be what you were hinting at jim_22, is that you can get overly sensitized to slight variations in the tests and overreact... either in what you do about what you see or just in the mental anguish area. As I have been told by experts in the lubrication field, "Dude! It's parts per MILLION!" You have to keep perspective on these things and that's tough to do when you don't know what's good generally or "normal" for your engine. Part of that is knowledge about tribology and part is having enough data points. Mulochico, after three tests, you still don't know enough to say what is "normal" for your engine. Each engine is a little different but every time you change a major element, such as the type or viscosity of oil, the oil change interval, the operational situation, etc., you are resetting the data as far as trending goes. For the most part, reacting to one analysis is like changing clothes 5 times a day every time you see a cloud blow over... worrying you might get cold or wet. On the Blackstone report, you want to look at the UNIVERSAL AVERAGES, which is the average of all similar engines to yours, in all operational situations, with whatever type of oil. If there is a lot of reports on that engine, universal averages are a good indicator. If they have a relatively small sampling, they are less useful. I had all this explained to me by an expert in statistics.

The bottom line to oil analysis is this:
1) You can't tell MUCH about engine wear from a single, or a few, reports; a single report is just a snapshot of a moment in time.
2) You can tell a LOT about oil health from a single or a few tests, most usefully about how close your oil change interval is to optimal.
3) Trending, i.e. about 10 reports, will give you a very good picture of how the engine is wearing in it's present situation (operationally and lubricant efficacy).
4) In certain situations, if you get lucky, you can catch a problem happening; or, as Mulochico is doing, track a possible coolant problem.
5) In light duty, non commercial applications, oil analysis pays for itself by helping you extend the oil change interval or in rare occasions shorten it. The former save you money by not allowing you to dump foil that has use left in it (oil is good until it's not and changing oil before it's time DOES NOT help you engine). In the latte case, which come into play in severe operating conditions or when using low-rent oils, you change it soon enough to prevent damage. Using oil analysis this way, which is what I do, is done by doing analysis at each oil change interval point (either when changing or via another sampling method BEFORE you drain it) and adjust the interval out until you reach a point when the oil start to significantly degrade. That mileage then becomes your interval and as long as you don't make a significant change in the "equation " (the lubricant or the operational environment) you don't need to sample any more. I spot check every few years or if I change the lubricant.

Going back to the cost effectiveness question, does oil analysis really pay for itself for the average person versus just using the standard, or slightly extended OCI? Despite having done it for many years, I'd have to say, for most people, no it doesn't. Lightly used engines seldom have problems and at $35 for the lest expensive tests (I consider the extra cost TBN report mandatory), it's just is an added expense.... $35 added to every oil change. In my case, it's provided the opportunity for a LOT of learning experiences so my payback did not come in the wallet but in other ways. BUT, I also used it to extend the oil change interval on all my equipment. 12K miles on the Honda on conventional oil (still stretching it out), 15K miles on the F-150 on conventional oil, going to 25K, 8K on the diesel and likely going out to 10K, HOURS ONLY on my two farm tractors, which equates to about 3-4 years of operation on each to reach 120-150 hours. All that saves me time and money on oil and filters but the analysis take some of those savings back. The one time I serious crunched the numbers, just last year, I was considerably ahead of the game versus changing the oil according to the arbitrary listings in the books. That works for me because the operational conditions on my vehicles are almost perfect... almost no short hops. My minimum drive out is 20 miles in this very rural environment, so the oil always has a chance to get fully warmed up. It's all about context... this works for me in large part because of my environment. Every situation is different.
 
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Mulochico

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Thanks Jim for the extended info. When I posted this thread originally, I was looking for good info (which I have got) to learn more. I have had the truck for about 6 years now and am getting more informed every day. ;Sweet

I am looking at the cost of the samples as an investment in learning as well as checking the condition of the truck. So, for me, money well spent!
 

idiabuse

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If you can think for yourself on a subject, (in "today's age that is illegal already",) then finding the benefits of reading and understanding oil analysis reports becomes a great way to save from buying less product over a period of time.
The end result is a verification process that allows you to safely extend oil drains in healthy operating machines.

I have some reports of lately that would make you sick to your stomach but hey, data is data...

Oh and Kelly tractor lab results are less than $15 and usually done the next day.
I laugh cause they call me all concerned the sample is critical but they do not know
the whole story.
I would say a change is due after a long hard year and 30,000 miles worth of service.
The OXI and NIT levels are about maxed, the 30 weight is now 40 so It is time for a change.
I got my moneys worth so far.
Is the engine damaged? Sure looks that way but nope she is good and still pulling over 20mpg
to date.
But that sample is just horrible looking ain't it? Laughing my ass off!



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