Odd E4OD issue

[LCAM-01XA]

That one has me stumped - I was out with my small truck ('90 F350) today and happily coasting downhill with the converter unlocked (like they all do from the factory), when all of sudden the tach jumped about 200 rpms and immediately fell back down to where it was before, and when I hit the bottom and tried to lock the converter she'd have none of it. However, when I dropped her down into 3rd she would lock properly. No flashing OD light. From a standstill no excessively hard upshifts, just somewhat delayed. TPS voltage at 1.15V at idle, 4.30V at WOT. Tach reads properly. No excessive temperature, about 130F at the pan. Let her cool down some, took her out again, same thing - all gears are there, but delayed upshifts, and no lockup in OD. And this is what gets me - my TCS is on a manual switch, it should not care one bit if the PCM has entered in limp mode or not, when I hit the switch it should lock - but no, it would only lock in 3rd, not in OD. Scanned for codes, came up with 62 CM - also odd, since the PCM is fed a dummy signal and it don't see the actual TCS coil voltage drop, ever! Disconnected the batteries, waited, hooked them back up, scanned for codes - all clear. Took her out again, was acting up in the same manner for the first mile, then all of sudden she locked in OD, and shift schedule went back to normal. Drove around for a bit, both at light throttle and foot to the floor, played with the lockup and manual shifting - all is perfect, as if nothing ever happened... Scanned again, and guess what, CM code 62 is back, but the PCM don't seem to care about it at all.

So do ya'll got any ideas as to *** happened? I have a pretty good idea why CM code 62 keeps coming back, I got the gut feeling it never really went away for the last few years, but that the PCM being as old as it is just ignores it - will measure TCS coil resistance tomorrow and swap dummy load resistor to verify this. However, what would cause a full-manual-control converter to refuse lockup in OD only, but still lock in 3rd? And why would the issue go away just as sudden as it appeared?

 

[david85]

I would hazard a guess its a sticking valve, but its been a while since I looked up the inner workings of these things. The fact that letting it cool off seemed to knock it loose is something that leads me to suspect a valve since those issues were temperature sensitive in my case.

 

[86truckpull]

Replace the factory tranny cooler and change the fluid in the tranny if that dnt work if you have the stock. Torque converter that would be my next suspect they were poorly designed and cause all sorts of weird things happen

 

[justinray]

Now im curious how to put my TC on a toggle, that could honestly come in REALLY handy at times.. PM me or post it here, please? and that is a really odd problem.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Dave, not sure letting it cool off actually did anything - in the beginning of the test run it was acting up just the same, I was already up to normal operating temps (after pulling a hill foot to the floor) and cruising on level ground when it went back to normal on its own. I'm thinking tho, would a valve jam on its own (remember I mentioned the tach flicker before I noticed the issue) with no input on my part, neither through the throttle pedal nor the shifter?

86truckpull, the trans definitely don't get too hot, I got the ATF pumping through the A/C condenser too and with the locked engine fan that's some serious cooling capability. I have an aftermarket converter, and the trans has a shift kit along with some other goodies in there, but since the TC has no drain I never completely got the old fluid out - and oversight on my part, so you're probably onto something there, and it may be a good idea to switch to Merc-V while I do the flush...

Justinray, wre have a tech article on the subject, however I'd advise that you wait a bit till I figure out what's with the reoccurring code 62 first, it may very well be that the 22k-ohm resistor I borrowed from the 4R100-equipped PSD guys don't quite work like it should with the E4OD...

 

[86truckpull]

The reason I say change the tranny cooler is the e4od runns a lot less psi thro the system then a normal tranny so anything in the cooler or the lines that may slow flow can have a bigg effect on the tranny

 

[LCAM-01XA]

You're thinking something may be plugging up there? Wouldn't that lead to overheating the trans in short time? I can fly foot to the floor with the converter unlocked and I've never seen more than 150F at the pan...

 

[86truckpull]

I dnt think it would cause over heating unless it was completely plugged up it may over heat when towing tho

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Hmm, well from everything I've heard about those transmissions they tend to run on the hot side even when just putting around at light throttle, the way I run mine she'd have given up the ghost long ago if the cooling wasn't up to par. No towing tho, but often a big camper in the bed, makes for the aerodynamics of an 80 sq.ft brick wall when I get on the interstate. The trans will still get an inline filter between the TC discharge port and the rad heat exchanger, should have done that a while ago actually...

 

[h2odrx]

I would hazard a guess its a sticking valve, but its been a while since I looked up the inner workings of these things. The fact that letting it cool off seemed to knock it loose is something that leads me to suspect a valve since those issues were temperature sensitive in my case.

That and or low fluid?

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Nope, no low fluid, it's right where it should be, color is good too - altho the smell is less than ideal... Will drop the pan to investigate later on today, and do a fluid change tomorrow.

On the TCS resistance subject, I measured it today, put the leads between the red wire (power feed from the PCM relay) and the purple/yellow wire, and I got 20 ohms (obviously, ignition was turned off). That's it, only 20 ohms, confirmed with three different meters. Well if that's the case, then why on earth do the PSD folks use that 22k-ohm resistor, and not just a 20-ohm one? Something seems a bit fishy here... I'm tempted to swap the small 22k-ohm resistor I got now with a nice 50-ohm power resistor (since 50 ohms is a whole lot closer to 20 than 22,000 ohms is) and see if that will make the PCM happy...

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

haven't heard from you in a while! good to see your still kicking.


well at 130 shes not up to operating temp yet.im not sure if this has anything to do with the problem or not.but its not good to over cool a trans either.
ideally you want a min of 150 and a max of 175-200 (though 225 is still comfortable.just needs to be changed more often.see chart in links) at the pan/test port.
fuel economy will suffer a bit as well with an over cooled trans.
with the fluid too cool (under 150 degrees) the fluid likely can't work as designed either,as when its up to operating temp either.
one step further today,synthetic trans fluid of course has been introduced,because it works more efficiently when cold.
you may want to try blocking off some of the a/c condenser AKA custom trans cooler, to let her run up to 150-175.

http://www.digi-panel.com/trannyoil.htm

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInfo/trans_life_expectancy.asp


these are not like the C6 trans,where you really had to go over board with coolers.
with the lockup,these suckers really run cool.
i drive around well under 1500 rpms a lot,once she locks up,thats all she wrote.very cool.
with a temp sensor just before entering the rads cooler my temps stay well below 200 with a mid size B&M cooler.
whats nice about the newer coolers is they bypass the fluid around inside until its warm.really helps to get her up to temp.....which helps the fuel economy too.too cold of fluid doesn't flow as good as warm.
if your bypassed the rad cooler,you may want to think about plumbing that back in too.......in fact that may be all it takes for ya.

this is where id start.getting the trans up to ideal operating temp.she may work better for ya.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Dunno about kicking, but no, Melony hasn't turned me into chop-suey quite yet, lol

I know 130F is on the low side, but that's what I measured after coasting down a hill and into the driveway, I'm sure she runs hotter than that when I'm on the throttle but I can't very well hang out the door and shoot the pan with the IR tool while driving I've seen 150F there for sure, don't think anything higher tho... But I do have the factory heat exchanger in the bottom rad tank plumbed in the system, and I also have one helluva loose torque converter - she will hold the truck from rolling back if stopped on a hill, but getting moving requires at least 1200 rpms, and around 1k on flat level ground - it's an aftermarket converter, IMHO the PO kinda went in the wrong direction with it, but whatever, it works so I ain't complaining.

Anyways, dropped the pan, and here's what I found - fluid ain't fresh pink but ain't brown either, also no burnt smell just what I've seen normal in just about any Ford slushbox... The mud on the magnet, well ya'll tell me about that, wasn't too much of it so I suppose nothing in the trans is committing suicide in an overly explicit way... These are two years old by the way, truck don't get driven much at all, I usually go through about one tank of fuel per month (if that) with the exception of my 1500-mile road trips twice a year.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Alright, here comes the stupid question of the day - how do you check the fluid level in the trans? Right now well warmed-up and idling in park the dipstick reads right at the top of the cross-hached area, however my truck also rides very high in the rear - if I want it to sit level I gotta climb the front wheels on some 4-by-4 beams, and when I do that the dipstick reads half a quart low. About the only time the truck sits level is when the camper is loaded in the back, which is pretty much only during my cross-country trips, rest of the year camper is off the truck and she sports the redneck rake, but since I rarely actually drive the truck like that the miles accumulated with the camper on and then off are about the same. So the question is, should I measure the fluid level with the truck empty and tilted forward (and thus end up half a quart low when I load up), or should I measure with the truck sitting level and then end up half a quart overfull when she's empty and of the 4-by-4s? Actually in the latter situation, is the transmission actually even overfull when it sits tilted like that?

 

[OLDBULL8]

If you would go here it explaines how to do a tranny flush. That way you flush all the gear cylinders including the TC. http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29296

As far as checking the level, you would be better off with a half Qt. low, as long as it's within the hash marks when your level. When you check it with the ass end high, it shouldn't be over the hi mark, over the hi mark would be same as overfill which causes the fluid to be thrashed around by the rotating clutches and such, causing aeration of the fluid, the pump doesn't like pumping air. A TC lockup should only be used for engine braking, and it's ineffective below 40 MPH, also below that speed it's very ******* the transmission, creates a lot of heat, without a temp guage you never know it.