kodiak98400
Registered User
79jasper do you just jump from battery to ribbon resistor side of glow plug relay after it cycles ?
No cold start
- Thread starter kodiak98400
- Start date
dlundberg1990
Registered User
I have jumped it after they cycle by grounding the unit to make it latch. I can take a video. It will be a 2 part video first attempt, second attempted plugged in.
dlundberg1990
Registered User
I have jumped it after they cycle by grounding the unit to make it latch. I can take a video. It will be a 2 part video first attempt, second attempted plugged in.
79jasper
Chickenhawk
No. On the relay jump the two big terminals.
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icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
gENERALLY SPEAKING WHEN YOU HAVE WHITE SMOKE OUT THE TAIL PIPE WHEN CRANKING AND A NO START IT MEANS THE GLOW PLUG CIRCUT IS NOT WORKING. aND THEN TELL US IF YOU PLUG IN FOR 1 HOUR IT FIRTES RIGHT UP AND TUNS FINE. sTILL TELLS ME ITS THE GLOW CIRCUT. jUMPING FROM THE FENDER SOLENOID DIRECTLY TO THE CONTROLLER IS THE BEST WAY OF GETTING POWER TO THE CONTROLLER. mANY TIMES THAT SILLY ENGINE WIRE HARNESS MAIN PLUG IS AT FAULT. lOOK IT OVER CLOSELY.
Damn it.. Sorry for the caps. The wifey made me a shopping list and she uses all caps. I type by 2 finers watching the keyboard. Sometimes I feel such a fool.
Anyway in that harness plug you have 2 yellow wires that feeds power to the controller. If any corrosion gets in that area it makes for some real heat trying to push the power thru that plug. Mine melted and smoked badly. I thought I burned up a starter. Next attempt to cold start touch that plug and see if its hot but know this. It can be plastic melting hot. The design of 2 small wires feeding power is felt to be cheaper on the wire required to handle the power. 2 small wires can carry the power of the more expensive larger wire. Look at any high voltage overhead power lines. The ones atop the steel towers. You might see as many as 3 wires in one feed. If you find a plug problem just jumper this plug with some 6 gauge speaker wire found at any car sterio shop. The only good reason for this plug is to easily remove the engine intact with all the controls connected to the harness. I took apart my plug after it melted and found the make ends so small I was surprised they could pass the power required t start the truck.
Damn it.. Sorry for the caps. The wifey made me a shopping list and she uses all caps. I type by 2 finers watching the keyboard. Sometimes I feel such a fool.
Anyway in that harness plug you have 2 yellow wires that feeds power to the controller. If any corrosion gets in that area it makes for some real heat trying to push the power thru that plug. Mine melted and smoked badly. I thought I burned up a starter. Next attempt to cold start touch that plug and see if its hot but know this. It can be plastic melting hot. The design of 2 small wires feeding power is felt to be cheaper on the wire required to handle the power. 2 small wires can carry the power of the more expensive larger wire. Look at any high voltage overhead power lines. The ones atop the steel towers. You might see as many as 3 wires in one feed. If you find a plug problem just jumper this plug with some 6 gauge speaker wire found at any car sterio shop. The only good reason for this plug is to easily remove the engine intact with all the controls connected to the harness. I took apart my plug after it melted and found the make ends so small I was surprised they could pass the power required t start the truck.
dlundberg1990
Registered User
Here is the video, truck does start but motor *** still kinds warm from last night. Outside temp is 52, motor is at 72. Plenty of white smoke cranking, and no it doesn't die at the end I shut it off.
https://youtu.be/1gtBHv2jLmI
https://youtu.be/1gtBHv2jLmI
kodiak98400
Registered User
Gary we did jump directly to the relay with 6 awg wire already. still no start
OLDBULL8
Good Morning Ya'll.
Just to be clear, I take it that these posts are Father (kodiak98400) and Son (dlundberg1990) talking about the same truck.
White smoke on a cold start usually indicates late timing or air intrusion, possibly plugged return line to tank, that is if the glow plug system is working properly ( GPC cycle of 12 to 15 seconds @30*F to 40*F) and a ON/OFF relay cycling up to 2 minutes.
You say the timing was set at 9.5 BTDC then changed to 8 BTDC, was that timing set with a hot engine?
From what you say, jumping the GP relay, did you go directly from battery to the relay terminal with the ZigZag strip and have good connections? If not do it that way, the relay contact may be burnt or corroded so that there isn't enough current passing to really heat (get HOT) the GP's. Voltage and current are two different things.
Edit: On your video it appears that the battery voltage is low, the instruments dim quite a bit. , although it seems to be cranking fast enough.
White smoke on a cold start usually indicates late timing or air intrusion, possibly plugged return line to tank, that is if the glow plug system is working properly ( GPC cycle of 12 to 15 seconds @30*F to 40*F) and a ON/OFF relay cycling up to 2 minutes.
You say the timing was set at 9.5 BTDC then changed to 8 BTDC, was that timing set with a hot engine?
From what you say, jumping the GP relay, did you go directly from battery to the relay terminal with the ZigZag strip and have good connections? If not do it that way, the relay contact may be burnt or corroded so that there isn't enough current passing to really heat (get HOT) the GP's. Voltage and current are two different things.
Edit: On your video it appears that the battery voltage is low, the instruments dim quite a bit. , although it seems to be cranking fast enough.
sjwelds
Full Access Member
So you say you replaced the controller; did you also replace the relay?
dlundberg1990
Registered User
Yes father and son same truck, I don't believe it is a fuel issue, I have no leaks and it will fire up first try if I just plug it in. Timing was done on a fully warmed up motor. When I ran a new wire I went from the relay on the fender to the controler where it would normally hook up. And my voltage Guage does read low but is is getting 12.76 volts at the controler, my Guage have always jumped that much cycling the glow plugs, batterys are less then 1 year old duralast 65's.after cycling glow plugs I have pulled one and the element is to hot to touch on the glow plug, that would be hot enough wouldnt you think?
icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
Please tell us what meter was used to time the engine. If a Kent Moore meter was used it can easily be reading retarded timing too. One MUST know the differences in the reading on the meter. If the reading had a minus sign before the degrees of timing then you have AFTER top dead center timing and need to advance the timing to the BEfORE side. Turning the injection pump towards the passenger side fender will advance the timing. Is the injection pump set almost straight up or is it leaning one way or the other. Bill had a good idea about white smoke and poor starts being grossly retarded timing.
kodiak98400
Registered User
Gary. I bought that meter from you several years ago when you sold 2 of them. It is timed correctly. We know about the minus sign. Thanks for checking thou.
kodiak98400
Registered User
yes he replace the controller and relay.
HS108
Diesel Newb
If you plug it in, and it fires, that leads me to believe you are having glow issues.
EDIT: Missed it in the first post but you do have new ZD9s, back to the drawing board..
Also these plugs should be getting in the range of 1000 F, maybe just as F250 said they aren't getting HOT, just only getting warm, thus causing your problem.
I watched your video, and from someone who has a non operational GP system I can tell you, at that temperature mine would not start with out being plugged in, so you are getting some heat from the GPs but maybe not enough
EDIT: Missed it in the first post but you do have new ZD9s, back to the drawing board..
Also these plugs should be getting in the range of 1000 F, maybe just as F250 said they aren't getting HOT, just only getting warm, thus causing your problem.
I watched your video, and from someone who has a non operational GP system I can tell you, at that temperature mine would not start with out being plugged in, so you are getting some heat from the GPs but maybe not enough
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icanfixall
Official GMM hand model
Thanks for the response. I was thinking about Hayden Lake Idaho and just could not place this. Also glad you know what to look for about plus and minus timing. I continue to feel you are not getting a good glow plug operation because of the cranking white smoke. Everything points to a non operational glow circut. But you have covered all of the circut. Only other item I can suggest is remove all the glow plugs and check them individually. What makes the diesel engine start is the air drawn into the cylinders gets heated up so it can ignite the fuel being sprayed in. The temp to ignite diesel is 942 degrees. So the faster the engine cranks the hotter the air becomes. Thats the simple science of compression ignition diesels of any make. A slow cranking engine can never make enough heat to ignite the diesel fuel. I bet if you push started it or tow started it cold the fast spinning engine will fire up easily.
