Need More Power 6.9

[359 Pete]

My 6.9 needs more power! I just put this pickup together. I purchased it as a non-turboed 2 wheel drive automatic. I was pulling a 6k pound goose neck with a 12 foot diameter 10 thousand gallon poly tank; essentially a parachute. I was unable to get out of third gear! At 2700 rpm I ran out of governor. When I shifted to 4th, rpm dropped to 1900 RPM and I was unable to build any boost with the first gen banks.
I still plan on installing a 7.3 injection pump, ultimately a moose-pump that is already in the works and water **** injection. What do you Think?

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

i think you need an f-superduty with 5.13 gears for such a load.not a pickup with 3.55's thats underrated for this type of weight by large margin.

 

[359 Pete]

The Poly tank was empty. The total trailer weight was perhaps a touch over 10k. In the 80's and 90's we pulled fully loaded 20 foot gooseneck livestock trailers well over 10k,( less the wind resistance) all the time, no big deal. All due respect, and thanks for the input.

 

[Ididriver]

Swapping to 4.10s will really help pulling power.
Other than that. Nice fuel system with a hot pump( dps or moose) open Intake and exhaust.

 

[FordGuy100]

How do the old banks turbo's mount?

I think a HX35 with 16cm wastegated housing and a HX40 cold side would help a lot. Smaller housing (but not to small) will help spool lower, and the HX40 compressor wheel would flow more air.

Maybe Russ could do a 60-1 on it?

 

[359 Pete]

Thats more along the lines of what i was thinking. The mount is a T-4. If I had some boost to get me back into my powerband I could hold 4th and maybe 5th.

 

[Squeaky_Wheel]

No boost at 1900 RPM, 4th gear, and 3.55 gears while pulling. I must be missing something. I have an 85, 6.9, 1st gen banks, 3.55s, zf, psd intercooler and make about 1 lbs boost empty. Pulling my tractor and trailer (9000 lbs) I get at least 3-4 lbs. These boost numbers are all on flat ground. What egt's are you reading?

 

[FordGuy100]

T4 mount you could go straight HX40 which comes with a 16cm housing. Pretty expensive though

 

[icanfixall]

First off you need to time the engine. I'm not saying that because I have a timing meter rental program either but I do this for everyone on this forum. The age of the injection pump and injectors is important too. Usually they last for about 150,000 miles. Now what is the exhaust temps. If they are down around 750 degrees then you can turn up the fuel some. Running the engine to 1100 degrees is safe. Getting rid of the muffler is going to decrease the exhaust temp and the turbo will spool up quicker. About the govner only reaching 2700rpm... That is the wrong pump for your truck. Thats the pump for the big bus and dump trucks. We turn up to 3800 rpm with our pickup truck pumps... there is a differance too. So if you want to time your engine pm me. My fee is $60.00 and I ship to you for that amount included. A pm works for me. This is not a businees. It more a service I do for the members of this forum. Nobody anywhere is timing these trucks any longer. I do know of one place in Downey Ca called Dieseltune and they charge $120.00 and thats last yeasr fee. When they did mine because I wanted to check my work they told me its 8.5 + or _ 2 degrees.... Thats what the factory says... I had already told them I wantd 9.5 degrees btdc and thats what they told me when they got done... Bye bye... Pay up and get gone.. Got others to work on... Well after some discussions about what Iwaswilling to pay for I finally got what I went in there for..... I might have been born in the dark but it wasn't last nite...;p

 

[ocnorb]

My 6.9 needs more power! I just put this pickup together. I purchased it as a non-turboed 2 wheel drive automatic. I was pulling a 6k pound goose neck with a 12 foot diameter 10 thousand gallon poly tank; essentially a parachute. I was unable to get out of third gear! At 2700 rpm I ran out of governor. When I shifted to 4th, rpm dropped to 1900 RPM and I was unable to build any boost with the first gen banks.
I still plan on installing a 7.3 injection pump, ultimately a moose-pump that is already in the works and water **** injection. What do you Think?

Sure sounds like your IP is not set up right. Mine hits governor around 3400-3500 rpm. I pull a 31 foot toyhauler that is taller than you poly tank with a Jeep and a few motorcycles in it. I'm not the fastest over the steep passes, but I'm not usually the slowest either. I have run the thing on the governor for hours pulling long grades with no issues. (At reasonable boost levels... last week I turned up the wick a bit too hard and blew a head gasket on the stock head bolts...doing the ARPs now.)

 

[Diesel JD]

Yeah if you're hitting governor at 27,2800 you have the IH truck pump. I ran one on my IDI as a temporary fix to keep me rolling a few years ago, it was fine, but the fueling curve is very different. You really need a hot pump and you need to make sure your turbo is in good shape. If I had that engine it would get a DPS fuel system and I'd time it with a meter...icanfixall's tools are very good and he's well known and trusted on this forum, I wouldn't hesitate to work with him. Mel's Moose stuff also gets good reviews here, and it sounds like you may already have ordered a pump through him? If so I think you'll be happy with it. I guess the question you have to ask yourself now is do your problems stem from having that IH truck pump on there or is your timing badly off or is your turbo not up to *****. My feeling is that the wrong pump probably won't hurt you that much because the IH pump allows your max torque to happen at a lower RPM. When I had 4.10s and a C6 and a Ford pump I felt the best power kick in at around 50 mph, same setup with the IH pump and it was closer to 40, then again the heaviest thing I had to tow was a boat that weighed in around 3500lbs at most. I'd be more inclined to believe it was the IH pump if you were telling us about the engine basically running out of steam at higher RPM...and maybe that is what you mean, if so...you probably need to snag a good used FORD spec DB2 and put it on there until your Moose arrives.

 

[359 Pete]

Thanks for the input fellas. I have been so busy here in California because we haven't had rain in over 2 months, I only have time to respond at night.
Squeaky_Wheel, I do have boost 2-3 lbs, just not enough to get the job done; a function of rpms i imagine. Egts at 1900 rpm with load in question 1200*, thats why I was pulling in third.

Icanfixall, you are right . I do need to time the injection pump, the injection system is new and or rebuilt with less than 5000 miles. The previous had done some pretty heavy maintenance! My exhaust temps range from 500-1200. The pump will be changed to a 7.3 pickup pump as soon as my injection shop is done, with it in the next week or so.

Ocnorb, You right, it sounds like I have the wrong governor spring. If I could wind out a little harder I could stay in the powerband when I shift.

 

[George D.]

3 things

1 Ditch the IH, or messed up IP and put in a turbo cal pump and throw in some matched injectors every one Like BBs I still Like my G codes but thats just me

2 Ditch the non gated turbo and get a gated one

3 if its still not up to ***** put 4.10s in if you have bigger tires this should be #2 But mine tows fine with the tires I have making it the same ratio as 3.55s with stock sized tires.

Of couse befor any of that when was the last time the fule filter was replaced? And did the truck pull well threw first and second? Might just be you were pulling too much wind

 

[NTOLERANCE]

What size rear tires are you running? a shorter tire may help temporarily. Shorter tire = lower effective(higher numerical) gear ratio. Shorter tires are easier to turn as well.

 

[Simp5782]

Search some previous threads to find out on the power increases. Speed is money, how fast can you afford to go? The IDI diesel was not built to win any towing contest.They were built to be worked day in and day out and ask for seconds and do it at their own pace. 3.55s were not made for heavy pulling. yes towing your boat, maybe some firewood. Yeah ok. Once you put anything behind an IDI that outweighs it you are in for a struggle if your truck is not setup right. You would be better off with 4.10s. But like I say, you cant have it both ways. You are either going to increase your gearing my increasing pulling power and losing MPG or keep the 3.55s and get good gas mileage when your empty and crappy when your loaded and do it slowly.

I have 4.56s 4x4 with a 4speed and I do not struggle with an 8k empty GN trailer, but once I start grossing 24k + I know it is back there. I have videos of mine with 4.56s grossing 25k to 37k you can tell the differences in weight on those gears.

Video of me grossing 34k truck, trailer, and firewood. You can see how it bogs down on hills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udSfWWAr_do

Grossing 37k - Flat land

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihcisfOShsk

37k w/ dozer on rear (zero tounge weight)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jnXYfxPVtQ


I get 8-11mpg empty and 6-9 loaded at 37k. Actually did a pull up a hill with my 94 turbo with alll its mods with the same load behind it as my 85 NA that is stock on the engine and the 85 outpulled it up the 6% grade.