Moose on the loose
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motox tech
Full Access Member
Figgured out the turbo question, think my dad has one on his bus conversion out in neb. Think He would give it to me since he retired the thing. guess id better check.
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
There you go. I think you'll get the boost you need, especially with the air being that cold. I remember the guy Justin was talking about and yes his truck not only made but survived a little more boost than the rest of us. Down here I'm stuck with lots of heat and humidity and also the thing is at sea level so the high altitude problems and the cold weather problems/benefits are pretty alien to me.
FordGuy100
Registered User
Ok I'm running some numbers right now off of the Garrett site.
If we want 300hp at the flywheel we will need 41.8 pounds per minute airflow capacity per this formula:
Wa=300*22*(.38/60)
Wa=Airflow actual (lbs/minute)
300=flywheel horsepower
22=Air fuel ratio (supposidy little to no smoke at this A/F ratio)
Brake specific fuel consumption converted to minutes=(.38/60)
So we need 41.8lbs/minute airflow for 300 flywheel horsepower.
That should give us a basic idea for a turbo map.
If we want 300hp at the flywheel we will need 41.8 pounds per minute airflow capacity per this formula:
Wa=300*22*(.38/60)
Wa=Airflow actual (lbs/minute)
300=flywheel horsepower
22=Air fuel ratio (supposidy little to no smoke at this A/F ratio)
Brake specific fuel consumption converted to minutes=(.38/60)
So we need 41.8lbs/minute airflow for 300 flywheel horsepower.
That should give us a basic idea for a turbo map.
FordGuy100
Registered User
A little more calculation that I dont want to type all of it out, came out that if we want a 95% Volumetric efficient turbo, to make boost for a 6.9l engine turning 3300rpm's putting out 130* air temperature, it would need to make 23.501psia (which is is including 14.7 for the atmospheric pressure, so 23.50-14.7= 8.8psi)
But there is a loss of boost pressure between the turbo and the engine I guess, because of piping, intercooler, and what not. They say its 1psi-4psi. Lets say 2psi, so effectivly we would need 10.8psi. Then you can calculate the pressure ratio, which would adjust for things like altitude (because you plug in the ambient air pressure, so we can calculate for sea level or 9000'+). So at sea level it would be 25.5/13.7 (vacuum between air filter and turbo, brings ambient pressure down to 13.7psi from 14.7psi) or 1.86 pressure ratio at sea level or 25.5/9.46 (10.46 ambient air pressure at 9000' - vacuum) or 2.7 pressure ratio. I will start looking at turbo maps now to see if I come up with anything.
So we need to look at turbo maps for a turbo that will put out 41.8lbs/minute at between 1.86 and 2.7 pressure ratios. And remember this is for a 6.9 turning 3300rpm's. If we want a turbo for a 7.3 turning say 3800rpm's it should be a little bigger.
Hopefully that will work.
But there is a loss of boost pressure between the turbo and the engine I guess, because of piping, intercooler, and what not. They say its 1psi-4psi. Lets say 2psi, so effectivly we would need 10.8psi. Then you can calculate the pressure ratio, which would adjust for things like altitude (because you plug in the ambient air pressure, so we can calculate for sea level or 9000'+). So at sea level it would be 25.5/13.7 (vacuum between air filter and turbo, brings ambient pressure down to 13.7psi from 14.7psi) or 1.86 pressure ratio at sea level or 25.5/9.46 (10.46 ambient air pressure at 9000' - vacuum) or 2.7 pressure ratio. I will start looking at turbo maps now to see if I come up with anything.
So we need to look at turbo maps for a turbo that will put out 41.8lbs/minute at between 1.86 and 2.7 pressure ratios. And remember this is for a 6.9 turning 3300rpm's. If we want a turbo for a 7.3 turning say 3800rpm's it should be a little bigger.
Hopefully that will work.
Last edited:
FordGuy100
Registered User
Just quickly looking at some turbo maps, the Garrett GT35 series turbo's should work.
FordGuy100
Registered User
Found a good website to figure out which turbo works good. You plug in data, then it will plot rpm points and boost for you on the turbo maps.
Webiste: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
Good turbo's from what I found: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=42
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=63
Thats for a 6.9 at 3300rpms and sea level making 300flywheel horsepower.
Now at 9000' the turbo maps change a the GT35 is no longer all that good, but the GT37 comes into spec a little better.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=43
Lots of info here. The problem I see is I cant get turbo maps for a turbo off of a DT466. I can get a HX35 map though, at altitude it seems alright. Here it is for a 6.9 at 9000'
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=606&airflow6=640&airflow7=626&product_id=113
It actually looks for a 7.3 turning 3800rpm's at 9000' and 300hp a S300 turbo would work really nicely.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=41.8&airflow6=47.7&airflow7=50&product_id=96
Lets see if the S300 turbo would be good at sea level for the 7.3...
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=41.8&airflow6=47.7&airflow7=50&product_id=96
Not the greatest.
This site is really good. We could use a lot of info from it.
Webiste: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
Good turbo's from what I found: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=42
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=63
Thats for a 6.9 at 3300rpms and sea level making 300flywheel horsepower.
Now at 9000' the turbo maps change a the GT35 is no longer all that good, but the GT37 comes into spec a little better.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=43
Lots of info here. The problem I see is I cant get turbo maps for a turbo off of a DT466. I can get a HX35 map though, at altitude it seems alright. Here it is for a 6.9 at 9000'
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=606&airflow6=640&airflow7=626&product_id=113
It actually looks for a 7.3 turning 3800rpm's at 9000' and 300hp a S300 turbo would work really nicely.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=41.8&airflow6=47.7&airflow7=50&product_id=96
Lets see if the S300 turbo would be good at sea level for the 7.3...
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=41.8&airflow6=47.7&airflow7=50&product_id=96
Not the greatest.
This site is really good. We could use a lot of info from it.
Last edited:
FordGuy100
Registered User
Ok DT466 or at least the DT466E have GT40 turbo's. Looking at maps here we go.
6.9 at sea level, everything else the same: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=45
At 9000': http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=45
7.3 at sea level bumping rpm up to 3800: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=41.8&airflow6=47.7&airflow7=50&product_id=45
7.3 at 9000': http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=41.8&airflow6=47.7&airflow7=50&product_id=45
Seems like it will work really good at altitude, where you will spend most of your time. Down low they will do alright, though to be honest, not the best, but it still should work decent.
6.9 at sea level, everything else the same: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=45
At 9000': http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...1.8&airflow6=44.1&airflow7=43.2&product_id=45
7.3 at sea level bumping rpm up to 3800: http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=41.8&airflow6=47.7&airflow7=50&product_id=45
7.3 at 9000': http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc...=41.8&airflow6=47.7&airflow7=50&product_id=45
Seems like it will work really good at altitude, where you will spend most of your time. Down low they will do alright, though to be honest, not the best, but it still should work decent.
Diesel JD
Full Access Member
Wow, thanks for doing all that extra work Justin. From anecdotal evidence, the DT466 turbo works just fine everywhere and boosts a little better in the higher altitudes. I hear 20psi up in the mountains...def. needs some headstuds...yikes.
motox tech
Full Access Member
Shouldnt be on here now its my Anniversary, just got home. Anyway to make it quick, Ill have more questions tomorrow morning, after talking to my dad. Thinking of trying a different route. Ill keep ya guy posted tomorrow. Apreciate all you guys effort and research!!!
FordGuy100
Registered User
Oh and running my numbers...on a 6.9 at sea level it should make 12.7psi, 9000' it should make 17psi. A 7.3 at sea level 11.3psi, at 9000' 15.6psi.
Both it says it should make 1psi of boost at 1200rpm's, and at higher elevations 9psi at 1900rpm's.
Both it says it should make 1psi of boost at 1200rpm's, and at higher elevations 9psi at 1900rpm's.
motox tech
Full Access Member
Ok, now im thinking about switchin gears here. Pretty sure my dads bus has the Dt466. He told me to come take anything I want on the thing. Not sure what tranny its pushin but will find out. Thought about just droppin the whole motor in my truck, but then Id be thumb'n it till the project was over. So what im cookin up in my brain now is, Finding an old 58, 59 apache (several on craigslist for cheap), convert to crew cab and 4wd. Full body off restore, build her from the ground up. since i can get the motor and running gear free the project shouldnt put me on the bread n water diet. I think this motor would probly fit in old apache pretty easy. Lots of fab'in but I need the practice.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
FordGuy100
Registered User
Can you give us a link to one of these Apaches?
DT466's are good engines, and can give some pretty good power with some minor tweaks
DT466's are good engines, and can give some pretty good power with some minor tweaks
motox tech
Full Access Member
Can you give us a link to one of these Apaches?
DT466's are good engines, and can give some pretty good power with some minor tweaks
http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/1362498345.html
bigoilburner19
Registered User
damn i love those old apaches damn i wish it was 4x4 damn have u all seen those 4x4 ones wow that is like a big dream put a 6.9 in it with a big turbo and a 5 spd with underdrive and 38 inch tires wow a dream
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