jaluhn83
Full Access Member
I've put about 1800 miles on the new engine/turbo setup over the past couple weeks and I am quite pleased with it. I'm going to go into some detail here for everyone's reference.
Background:
The truck in question is an 85 F250 reg cab 4x4. I'm running 3.55 gears and 33x12.50r16.5 tires with a ZF5-S42 trans. Most commonly the truck is used to pull my horse trailer which is a 3 horse gn rig that weights ~6k empty. Typical GVW is 12.5-14.5k. The previous engine iteration was relatively close to stock except for a homemade turbo setup. The motor was rebuilt ~40k miles ago and was bored 0.40" over and received head studs at that time, but it was a low budget rebuilt, notably using good used low mileage pistons rather than new. The piston did have some minor pockmarking on the crowns as a result of shrapnel damage from the first rebuilt eating an intake valve. The injection pump and injectors were replaced at the time of the rebuild, apt with cheap rebuilds. Relatively soon after the rebuild the engine suffered an overheating incident as a result of a leaking block heater screw which caused more damaged than I had though, including a small (~1/8" cubed) piece of one piston welding to the cylinder and tearing out of the piston, and some scuffing damage. Undoubtedly the ring temper was also degraded.
The turbo system is roughly modeled after a 1st gen Banks turbo - the exhaust dumb into a modified stock exhaust y-pipe which comes up the driver's side of the trans to the turbo. The turbo is mounted somewhat higher and further forward than the Banks system. The down pipe goes down the passenger side. Up-pipe is 2 1/2" IIRC and the downpipe is 3", increasing to a 4" straight pipe exhaust. The turbo itself is a Banks wastegated unit (MHI TE06H) however I suspect it has the incorrect exhaust housing as it never made as much boost as it should have. IIRC the fuel screw was turned up ~90* from stock. The turbo setup would make ~5-6psi at 2000 rpm increasing to 8-9 at 2750.
With this setup I could pull most grades in 3rd gear at 45-50 mph with the loaded trailer.
New Setup:
The basis of this engine build was to fix an internal engine noise that turned out to be the result of the overheating damage mentioned above. It was also desired to improve performance some while keeping within the bounds of a reliable engine and reasonable price. The pistons are decked 0.015" and were ceramic coated on the crowns and skirts. Bore is still 0.040" over. The cam was upgraded to the TYP4 torque cam. The heads are actually from NMB2's engine and had a fairly recent 3 angle valve job and I believe some porting work. I had not originally intended to do much head work, but it became nesseccary when mine original heads were found to be cracked. The exhaust valves are NMB2's and are fairly new stainless, and the intakes are stainless also from TYP4, installed with performance springs and shims also from Russ. The heads were installed with studs torqued IIRC 10 ft.lb over stock spec. Nothing special for the head gaskets. I'm running a bull moose pump and injectors are newer (5-10k miles) aftermarket BB code units. The intake has been modified by cutting off the center trunk area and welding in a 2 1/2" mandel bend pipe flaring into a clean entrance to the manifold - no leaking intake hat to worry about.
The turbo I'm using is a used unit off a 98 cummins manual. It is the 8 blade HX35 with a wg setting of somewhere around 18-20psi. I'm using the same up & down pipes I had before apt with minor modification to adapt to the new turbo. I'm running a water/air intercooler setup from frozen boost with a type 3 (12x12x4.5", 700 cfm) intercooler and a 12x24x1" radiator though I do not yet have the water side hooked up. The intercooler is mounted on top of the frame rail just aft of the radiator mount and inboard of the battery tray support roughly where the vacuum pump used to be. (deleted, replaced by hydroboost and a yet to be installed electric pump for HVAC) The piping on both sides of the intercooler is 2 1/2" aluminum welded up from mandrel bends.
I also installed a ZF5-S47 trans, mainly because I wound up with what looks like a recent factory reman unit and my current S42 was getting tired.
The radiator was also replaced with a 3 row aluminum Champion type due to theft of the original stock 4 row.
Performance:
The new build is very nice improvement on the old motor. I estimate about 30% more power especially at lower rpm. I'm seeing a max of ~18 psi boost at ~2500 rpm though I haven't really tried to get super high numbers. I also have a substantial exhaust leak at the turbo flange that I'm sure is hurting that number a bit, and having the intercooler not yet connected make high boost less useful.
I've made 4 major trips with the rig now:
1) First was a ~400 mile run (san diego to yuma & back on I-8) with the truck empty to break in and check functionality. The truck ran very well, and easily pulled the hills on the 8 in 4th and 5th gear. At one point I accelerated from 65 to ~80 going up a 6% grade in 5th gear. On the flatland I was seeing ~400-550* egt and 1-2psi boost in 5th at 70-75 mph.
2) First trip made with the trailer along roughly the same route - I-8 from san diego over the hill almost to El Centro. Estimated GVW for this run is 12.5k. I pulled the hill almost all the way to the hwy 79 exit in 4th at 60-65mph but then had to slow due to the engine getting hot due to a fan clutch failure. Likewise pulling the hill westbound was slow for the first 10 miles having to stop every couple miles and high idle to cool off. The truck did have good acceleration getting going again though.
3) Last weekend I went to Sacramento to pick up a mule. Went up via 15/210/5 and back via I-5. Northbound GVW was ~12.5k and southbound 13.5k. Just before this trip I installed a new aftermarket fan clutch and partially repaired the turbine flange exhaust leak. I was able to hold 60-65 on the grapevine northbound and about the same southbound except for about 5 miles of the steep section right at the bottom of the hill where I had to downshift to 3rd. Once it leveled out though I was able to upshift and accelerate nicely. Both direction in the central valley I was doing 65-70 in 5th running ~5psi boost and 750-850 egts and had sufficient power to deal with the rolling hills and accelerating as needed for passing/etc without downshifting. MPG on the central valley section was 13.0.
4) Yesterday I took the horse up to ride in the Descanso area of I-8/hwy 79. The climb required to get up there on I-8 is about 15 miles of varying 4-6% grade climbing from ~1000 ft to 4000. There are several sections that fell like they may be greater than 6%, but it's signed at 6. GVW was ~13.5k. I went into the bottom of the hill to Alpine (first real steep section) doing ~68 and running full throttle in 4th was able to hold pretty much that speed all the way up, dropping to 64 by the time I hit Tavern road (~3 miles up) and then accelerating back up once it leveled off a bit. About a mile before 79 I was finally forced to downnshift for the steep section there but it was a near thing. Max boost was ~17 psi at 1200* egt. (pre turbo).
Overall I am pretty impressed with what I'm seeing - Pretty much anything shy of 6% can be taken without slowing down, and above that just drop a gear. I would like to regear her to 3.73 as I think that will help with the powerband. Right now my sweet spot for power feel like it's about 65mph in 4th which is a bit high - I'd rather have the sweet spot around 55-60. The large gap between 3rd & 4th on the S-47 is also telling.
The HX35 does have a very pronounced turbo whine - go over 5 psi and it sounds like it's trying to take off!
The HX35 appears to be capable of burning everything the moose pump can throw at it - I don't seem to have much of a smoke problem though it's easy to smoke at lower rpm/boost - just have to be very careful.
Eventually I'm going to have to run her on a dyno, but off butt dyno numbers I'm guessing I'm somewhere near 300hp/550ft/lb at the flywheel. Not bad for a 30 year old truck.
Background:
The truck in question is an 85 F250 reg cab 4x4. I'm running 3.55 gears and 33x12.50r16.5 tires with a ZF5-S42 trans. Most commonly the truck is used to pull my horse trailer which is a 3 horse gn rig that weights ~6k empty. Typical GVW is 12.5-14.5k. The previous engine iteration was relatively close to stock except for a homemade turbo setup. The motor was rebuilt ~40k miles ago and was bored 0.40" over and received head studs at that time, but it was a low budget rebuilt, notably using good used low mileage pistons rather than new. The piston did have some minor pockmarking on the crowns as a result of shrapnel damage from the first rebuilt eating an intake valve. The injection pump and injectors were replaced at the time of the rebuild, apt with cheap rebuilds. Relatively soon after the rebuild the engine suffered an overheating incident as a result of a leaking block heater screw which caused more damaged than I had though, including a small (~1/8" cubed) piece of one piston welding to the cylinder and tearing out of the piston, and some scuffing damage. Undoubtedly the ring temper was also degraded.
The turbo system is roughly modeled after a 1st gen Banks turbo - the exhaust dumb into a modified stock exhaust y-pipe which comes up the driver's side of the trans to the turbo. The turbo is mounted somewhat higher and further forward than the Banks system. The down pipe goes down the passenger side. Up-pipe is 2 1/2" IIRC and the downpipe is 3", increasing to a 4" straight pipe exhaust. The turbo itself is a Banks wastegated unit (MHI TE06H) however I suspect it has the incorrect exhaust housing as it never made as much boost as it should have. IIRC the fuel screw was turned up ~90* from stock. The turbo setup would make ~5-6psi at 2000 rpm increasing to 8-9 at 2750.
With this setup I could pull most grades in 3rd gear at 45-50 mph with the loaded trailer.
New Setup:
The basis of this engine build was to fix an internal engine noise that turned out to be the result of the overheating damage mentioned above. It was also desired to improve performance some while keeping within the bounds of a reliable engine and reasonable price. The pistons are decked 0.015" and were ceramic coated on the crowns and skirts. Bore is still 0.040" over. The cam was upgraded to the TYP4 torque cam. The heads are actually from NMB2's engine and had a fairly recent 3 angle valve job and I believe some porting work. I had not originally intended to do much head work, but it became nesseccary when mine original heads were found to be cracked. The exhaust valves are NMB2's and are fairly new stainless, and the intakes are stainless also from TYP4, installed with performance springs and shims also from Russ. The heads were installed with studs torqued IIRC 10 ft.lb over stock spec. Nothing special for the head gaskets. I'm running a bull moose pump and injectors are newer (5-10k miles) aftermarket BB code units. The intake has been modified by cutting off the center trunk area and welding in a 2 1/2" mandel bend pipe flaring into a clean entrance to the manifold - no leaking intake hat to worry about.
The turbo I'm using is a used unit off a 98 cummins manual. It is the 8 blade HX35 with a wg setting of somewhere around 18-20psi. I'm using the same up & down pipes I had before apt with minor modification to adapt to the new turbo. I'm running a water/air intercooler setup from frozen boost with a type 3 (12x12x4.5", 700 cfm) intercooler and a 12x24x1" radiator though I do not yet have the water side hooked up. The intercooler is mounted on top of the frame rail just aft of the radiator mount and inboard of the battery tray support roughly where the vacuum pump used to be. (deleted, replaced by hydroboost and a yet to be installed electric pump for HVAC) The piping on both sides of the intercooler is 2 1/2" aluminum welded up from mandrel bends.
I also installed a ZF5-S47 trans, mainly because I wound up with what looks like a recent factory reman unit and my current S42 was getting tired.
The radiator was also replaced with a 3 row aluminum Champion type due to theft of the original stock 4 row.
Performance:
The new build is very nice improvement on the old motor. I estimate about 30% more power especially at lower rpm. I'm seeing a max of ~18 psi boost at ~2500 rpm though I haven't really tried to get super high numbers. I also have a substantial exhaust leak at the turbo flange that I'm sure is hurting that number a bit, and having the intercooler not yet connected make high boost less useful.
I've made 4 major trips with the rig now:
1) First was a ~400 mile run (san diego to yuma & back on I-8) with the truck empty to break in and check functionality. The truck ran very well, and easily pulled the hills on the 8 in 4th and 5th gear. At one point I accelerated from 65 to ~80 going up a 6% grade in 5th gear. On the flatland I was seeing ~400-550* egt and 1-2psi boost in 5th at 70-75 mph.
2) First trip made with the trailer along roughly the same route - I-8 from san diego over the hill almost to El Centro. Estimated GVW for this run is 12.5k. I pulled the hill almost all the way to the hwy 79 exit in 4th at 60-65mph but then had to slow due to the engine getting hot due to a fan clutch failure. Likewise pulling the hill westbound was slow for the first 10 miles having to stop every couple miles and high idle to cool off. The truck did have good acceleration getting going again though.
3) Last weekend I went to Sacramento to pick up a mule. Went up via 15/210/5 and back via I-5. Northbound GVW was ~12.5k and southbound 13.5k. Just before this trip I installed a new aftermarket fan clutch and partially repaired the turbine flange exhaust leak. I was able to hold 60-65 on the grapevine northbound and about the same southbound except for about 5 miles of the steep section right at the bottom of the hill where I had to downshift to 3rd. Once it leveled out though I was able to upshift and accelerate nicely. Both direction in the central valley I was doing 65-70 in 5th running ~5psi boost and 750-850 egts and had sufficient power to deal with the rolling hills and accelerating as needed for passing/etc without downshifting. MPG on the central valley section was 13.0.
4) Yesterday I took the horse up to ride in the Descanso area of I-8/hwy 79. The climb required to get up there on I-8 is about 15 miles of varying 4-6% grade climbing from ~1000 ft to 4000. There are several sections that fell like they may be greater than 6%, but it's signed at 6. GVW was ~13.5k. I went into the bottom of the hill to Alpine (first real steep section) doing ~68 and running full throttle in 4th was able to hold pretty much that speed all the way up, dropping to 64 by the time I hit Tavern road (~3 miles up) and then accelerating back up once it leveled off a bit. About a mile before 79 I was finally forced to downnshift for the steep section there but it was a near thing. Max boost was ~17 psi at 1200* egt. (pre turbo).
Overall I am pretty impressed with what I'm seeing - Pretty much anything shy of 6% can be taken without slowing down, and above that just drop a gear. I would like to regear her to 3.73 as I think that will help with the powerband. Right now my sweet spot for power feel like it's about 65mph in 4th which is a bit high - I'd rather have the sweet spot around 55-60. The large gap between 3rd & 4th on the S-47 is also telling.
The HX35 does have a very pronounced turbo whine - go over 5 psi and it sounds like it's trying to take off!
The HX35 appears to be capable of burning everything the moose pump can throw at it - I don't seem to have much of a smoke problem though it's easy to smoke at lower rpm/boost - just have to be very careful.
Eventually I'm going to have to run her on a dyno, but off butt dyno numbers I'm guessing I'm somewhere near 300hp/550ft/lb at the flywheel. Not bad for a 30 year old truck.
where are the pics? worthless thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
