Hub problems.

[Selahdoor]

If I shouldn't post this here, please let me know.

Ok, 89 f250 7.3idi 4wd


Snow. We have too much of it! I went out yesterday, to try to drive through it. Went about half a mile, and got stuck several times.

While driving along, doing nothing any more unusual than trying to establish a good straight original track down the road, (Makes it easier coming back. )... I heard and felt 'clunking' several times. I would swear it was something like the front end, moving, on the leaf springs. I didn't notice anything unusual about any of the times it did so. Same old deep snow. Same old forward 'plowing'. (No, I don't have a plow.) Uphill, downhill, slower, faster, whatever. It just clunked one side or the other when it wanted to, apparently.

Well, I get back near home, and suddenly have no more 4WD.

I am HOPING that the only damage is a hub. (A bit of history. I bought this truck from a kid. He had huge tires on it, (It now has the right size studded snow tires on it.), and did too many stupid things on it, to mention. The only thing worth mentioning right here, is that I believe he replaced ONE hub. The passenger side. It is the driver's side hub that is now in question.)

Here is what is happening...

Put it in 4wd. Unlock both hubs. Both axles spin. Lock both hubs, the drivers side axle spins, but the passenger side axle does not. Neither tire spins, regardless of lock or unlock. At least, while sitting on the ground. I haven't tried it with the front end in the air, because it is sitting at the foot of my very steep driveway, buried in snow.


Now, from my super-human powers of observation, (), I would assume that at the very least, the driver's side hub is broken.

But I am hoping that I haven't done worse damage.

Here's the thing. I say I suddenly had no 4WD. Well, that's not necessarily true. It's possible it went out, somewhere, further away, or went out slowly, in a process, and when I reached my drive just happened to be when I noticed it. I probably wouldn't have realized it at all, except my neighbor was standing there when I was trying to get up the drive, and he told me the front wheels were not spinning. That's when I investigated and saw the differences in the axle spinning in locked or unlocked, etc.

So. What I want to know is, what are the chances that I did some other damage to the system? I mean, if one hub was broken, it's pretty much the same as having one hub unlocked and the other locked, right? I know on a chevy, you can do some major damage to the transaxle or front end, if that is the case. Are these fords any different?




In a bit, I am going to go out and remove the hub. I hope there is nothing major, like axle damage, in there. If the hub itself has broken, and nothing else, I am hoping that I can just 'permanently' lock it in, and leave it that way. There is no way I am getting out of here without 4WD.

When I get to the highway, I can shift it back into 2wd, and leave the hubs locked in, for a trip to town. (Where I'll buy a set of new hubs.) I'll sacrifice fuel mileage, but I don't think it will do any other damage, will it?

 

[franklin2]

It won't hurt it that only one hub was working. You may not be able to rig it though.

I had the same situation on my first 4x4 I bought, a 1980 f150 for $300. They thought something serious was wrong, the 4x4 would not work. It was the same thing, one hub would not work. This old truck had the two spanner nuts with the pin and the washer with the holes to tension and lock the wheel bearing adjustment. They hadn't put it together correctly, so it slowly spun itself out toward the hub where it chewed the hub to pieces. I had to get a new hub to fix it, then I had 4x4.

 

[Selahdoor]

It won't hurt it that only one hub was working. You may not be able to rig it though.

I had the same situation on my first 4x4 I bought, a 1980 f150 for $300. They thought something serious was wrong, the 4x4 would not work. It was the same thing, one hub would not work. This old truck had the two spanner nuts with the pin and the washer with the holes to tension and lock the wheel bearing adjustment. They hadn't put it together correctly, so it slowly spun itself out toward the hub where it chewed the hub to pieces. I had to get a new hub to fix it, then I had 4x4.

Thank you!!!!

Well, by the end of the day today, I know a little bit more than I did before, but not much.

Here is a pic of the hub, with the top removed.

Looks like it is a 19 spline, and that is about as much as I know, by now.

You must be registered for see images attach

It looks crooked in there, because it pretty much is. If you push that piece back in, it will go back in, and level out. But if allowed to pop out, it is crooked.

Bottom line right now, is that I need to go back out there tomorrow, remove the big outer clip, and get that body completely out of there. The lock unlock feature of the outer body is working just fine. It pushes that piece back in there exactly the way it is supposed to. And as I said, the piece goes back in, like it should.

So, either the inner guts of the hub are broken, or something about the axle is busted.

At this point, because the outer portion of the axle looks good, I have high hopes that the axle itself is good, and the problem is that the innerds of the hub are broken.

I'll find out tomorrow morning.

Again, thanks for the reply. And please forgive my run-on posting here. I am very tired. I haven't eaten all day, and I am diabetic, so I suspect I am starting to ramble.

 

[pelky350]

My truck did a similar thing when it snowed here last also got colder than normal down to like 10 degrees, truck wouldn't engage 4x4 the whole time seemed to catch and let go sorta. All I did was take hubs off noticed grease looked old and terrible put new grease in and they worked just fine after. Could just be sticky cold hubs maybe? New hubs never hurt though kinda the weak link in the system stock. these axles are pretty tough though I couldn't imagine much damage to the axle itself without a lot of 4x4 miles on them

 

[towcat]

are you a reg cab truck or supercab/ext cab truck.
it makes a difference.
reg cab = dana 44
super cab = dana 50

"judging" by the pics, you are a dana 44.
imho, you blew you locker. ie....killed it dead.
easy fix. all you need is the replacement guts.
see pics below.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Selahdoor]

My truck did a similar thing when it snowed here last also got colder than normal down to like 10 degrees, truck wouldn't engage 4x4 the whole time seemed to catch and let go sorta. All I did was take hubs off noticed grease looked old and terrible put new grease in and they worked just fine after. Could just be sticky cold hubs maybe? New hubs never hurt though kinda the weak link in the system stock. these axles are pretty tough though I couldn't imagine much damage to the axle itself without a lot of 4x4 miles on them

Thank you! I was further encouraged by this.

 

[Selahdoor]

are you a reg cab truck or supercab/ext cab truck.
it makes a difference.
reg cab = dana 44
super cab = dana 50

"judging" by the pics, you are a dana 44.
imho, you blew you locker. ie....killed it dead.
easy fix. all you need is the replacement guts.
see pics below.

You must be registered for see images attach

And thank you!

I was also further encouraged by this.

Last night, I did figure out that it is the dana 44. 19 spline. (Reg cab, but I didn't know the distinction between the cabs, making the difference. I figured it out by a lot of observation and research. )


By the time that I took that pic, yesterday, it was already getting late, and dark. I was getting sick again. And I was miserably cold. So I had to call it quits.

But I spent the rest of the evening, researching. After looking at tons of pictures and videos online, (and after being encouraged here), I went to bed encouraged. It does indeed look like the hub is busted. (Never thought I'd be encouraged by such a thing. )

This is the first Ford truck I've ever owned. Finding myself in this mess with my old chevy, would have absolutely meant tons of money, to repair. Just fixing the hub itself would have been spendy. But from experience, if you have trouble with a single hub, and don't know it, and drive it anyway, you ARE going to be replacing your transaxle, and/or other front end parts.


I still don't, and won't know for sure, of course, until I get the rest of that hub out of there. But I am at least 95% positive that it IS just the hub that is broken.

It is now RAINING, here. Has been raining heavily all night. So now I am going to have to work on a very steep, very muddy hillside, to get the rest of that, off. Still very cold. 35* as I speak. And IN the continued heavy rain... Yuck.

If you guys don't mind my rambling... (And I guess if you do, you can just click away. )

I travel about 1/2 a mile to the nearest semi-cleared road. The clunking and jerking that I was feeling, on the way out to that road, was, I believe, the hub finding it's way to being completely broken.

Hindsight is 20/20, of course. Now, I can see that it probably broke completely, about 2/3 of the way out there. Remembering the entire trip, with the lens of 40 years of driving in snow with either 2wd or 4wd... I'm pretty sure, the last 1/3 of the trip, out, I was only in 2wd. And of course the entire trip, back home.

Given that, it is a minor miracle that I got along as well as I did. This truck did better in 2wd, than any other vehicle I have ever driven in these conditions, in 2wd. And better than some 4wd I have driven.

 

[franklin2]

One thing I found out the hard way, don't put any grease in there. All that old grey stuff, clean it out of there and if you use anything, use a very light oil or wd40. Grease gets too stiff when it's cold. You can usually get them locked in with the grease, but you will find that large spring behind the dog is not strong enough to overcome the grease to disengage the hub when you unlock it. Sometimes you have to drive for several miles before hub finally disengages.

 

[towcat]

I can't emphasize enough to get a GOOD set of snap ring pliers. the difference is either getting the job done in minutes or fighting for hours.

 

[Selahdoor]

Ok, I never removed the rest of that hub body. Couldn't get the big c clip out. Couldn't even FIND it. Finally realized... I don't think the clip is IN there!!! It's all probably held in by rust, at this point.

I wondered why it looked like mine was farther out of the housing than everyone else's. Also, the axle shaft moves in and out a bit, and wobbles a bit, even when the middle ring is pushed back and everything should be engaged. But pull as much as you want, the end of the axle shaft never ends up as far out, in comparison to the body of the hub, as I see in all the other pictures.

So, yeah. I'm convinced even without pulling it for R&R, that the hub is broken.

Ordered new ones. Gotta go pick them up tomorrow. I think the combination of how much I have cleared the drive and road of snow and ice... And all the rain that has been falling all last night, and all day today... Has made the road passable enough that I should be able to get through, at least to get OUT tomorrow in 2WD.

If I don't think I can get back in, with just 2WD, I'll find a parking lot somewhere, and swap the hubs before coming back home.


Grease. The grease in these is thick, gooey, etc. because of the cold. Looks like someone put in grease with graphite. Anyway, the mechanism does work, easily. And the spring does easily push it back out.

Howsomever... About a month ago, my neighbor, who has three fords, all of them 4WD, said that on short trips to town, I should just leave the hubs locked in. Shift it out of 4WD, but leave the hubs locked. That way I am not getting in and out, every time I am entering the highway, or leaving it... For short trips, (less than 5 miles, and less than 1 mile of that was highway.), it should have no ill effect on the hubs, or the rest of the system.

I took him at his word, and left them locked for the next two very short trips. It was nice not having to climb in and out to do that. (I still prefer the manual hubs, because then I am positive when they are locked or not.)

Well, the next trip was a long one. Lots of highway. So, I got out and unlocked them, when I got to the highway. Shifted out of 4WD, and went on my way. They STAYED locked in, for at least 5 miles, down the highway. before they finally unlocked and stopped humming. Now I wonder if that contributed to this problem.


Snap ring pliers. Yes, most definitely. Already found that out. The center snap ring, was too thick and strong for what I have, so I am going to have to invest in some really strong ones.

 

[snicklas]

As long as you don't have the transfer case in 4x4, hi or low, you can drive on "dry pavement" for extended periods. We had an 83 F-150 4x4 with the D-44 front, with manual lock-outs and manual transfer case. Once we locked the front hubs in, in the late fall/winter, we would not unlock them until spring. We put thousands of miles on the truck this way. We didn't have any issue with the drive line due to the lock-outs being locked in. The only issue we had was with the splines in the passenger side axle shaft, being out first-time IFS 4x4, we didn't know about that joint, and it never got greased..... eventually that made a smooth shaft, rather than splines....

Also, on my 03 I had issues with the ESOF Vacuum seals, so I locked them in also (The ESOF on the 99+ SuperDuty's will use vacuum to automatically lock in, or they have the ability to be manually locked in at the hub). I drove it all winter that way, until I fixed the front drive line.

As long as everything is properly lubed (gear oil in the differential and grease in all the appropriate places) you shouldn't have any issues.

 

[Selahdoor]

I suspect it was just ready to go out, then.

They are WARN brand. But they are two different colors. And the one on the passenger side looks newer. So I would suspect the PO replaced the passenger side, and not the driver's side.

Bottom line, probably just time to replace them again.

 

[Selahdoor]

When I removed the hub, I couldn't see any damage. Even though I took it completely apart, I couldn't see anything that would cause it not to work. And, in fact, when I intentionally locked it in, it worked!

Eventually I'll take the other one completely apart as well, and compare the parts. Because the one thing that I noticed was that the 'dog' may have the bottom 3rd of the teeth, worn down, or sheared off.

The only other thing that kind of bothered me, is that it seemed like the other side was permanently locked in. The dog never came out of the locked position, until I pried the complete hub body off of the axle.

~~~

While I had the broken hub off, and couldn't find the problem with it, I decided to test the axle to see if there was anything else wrong. It turned just fine with the transaxle shifted out of 4wd. And wouldn't turn, when it was shifted into 4wd. Only thing about it that bothered me was that it seemed to push in and out, more than half an inch.


~~~

Anyway, new hubs are installed, and I have 4wd again!

Thank you everyone, for your help.