Gummy Oil

[jhnlennon]

Never noticed a difference myself. There could be any number of explanations.... but it really doesn't matter. ATF has much less detergent in it than motor oil. Certain synthetic oils that contain a lot of esters may have some solvent capability, i.e. the ability to dissolve gum and varnish, so perhaps you could see a difference there.

Calcium and magnesium are the two main detergents used in oil, calcium being the stronger of the two, in all types of oil. Boron is a multi-function additive that's both an anti-wear and detergent additive.

Averaging the calcium, magnesium and boron of several Dex III ATFs, I get:

Dex III

Calcium- 0.05%
Magnesium- 0.05%
Boron- 0.15%


Delo 400 LE Motor Oil

Calcium- 0.18%
Magnesium- 0.05%
Boron- 0.5%

Rotella 5W40

Calcium- 0.13%
Magnesium- 0.08%
Boron- 0.08

Delvac 1300

Calcium- 0.13%
Magnesium- 0.08%
Boron- 0.06


Here's quote from a respected Tribologist I know:

The main requirements of an ATF are thermal stability and friction modification (lubrication), with some anti-wear additive for the sun, lock-up, and planetary gears, and of course, the needle/pin bearings. Add about 0.05% of anti-foamants (siloxanes) and some red dye for leak identification, and you have a special Hydraulic Oil called, 'ATF.' The formulator will tweak the additive package for each base oil type (group) or mixes of base oils.The calcium and magnesium need not be as strong in ATF as in IC engines, because these dispersant/detergents don't have to work so hard removing (cleaning) the carbonaceous deposits and sludge created by blowby. The borates (as in boron) are multifunctional additive's that work as Anti-Wear additives, as detergents, as anticorrosives, and as anti-oxidants. The fluid not only acts as the lubricant, but also acts as the power (torque) transfer agent. In doing the latter, it gets hot and tends to oxidize the oil. The main requirement for calcium, magnesium, and to a lesser extent, boron, is to keep the internals clean of any oxidized particles so they can operate the hydraulic actuators and valves.


Forgot to add. Say you add a quart of ATF you your oil, runit a while and it seems to have done a job of cleaning. OK. Well, what you did is add fresh oil that has a fresh additive pack (albeit less detergents than motor oil, it still has some and they are ******) to used oil in which the additive package is weak and nearly used up. The fresh additives do some cleaning. Stands to reason. A quart of fresh motor oil will do the same thing and probably do it better without diluting the oil and putting in anti-wear additives not designed for engines. One good thing about ATF in engines is that ATF has a lot of seal swelling agents in it, so it might soften the seals up a little if given enough time. But in a diesel, why would you want to dilute the oil with 10 or 20 grade oil when the oil has probably already sheared down. To me, the disadvantages in putting ATF in an engine far outweigh any advantages.

It may be low on typical detergents(I.E. ones used in motor oil), but what about dispersants or non-standard detergents that aren't usually tested for? There must be something in ATF that has the ability to dissolve gum and varnish, otherwise valves would get sticky and passageways would become blocked. There are many more small moving parts and passageways in an automatic tranny that depend upon being clean for proper operation.

I too have noticed the cleaning properties of atf many times before, mainly when I change it and my hands always end up being clean in the end. It literally eats the grease off my hands(WD40 does the same thing too)...

 

[PwrSmoke]

It may be low on typical detergents(I.E. ones used in motor oil), but what about dispersants or non-standard detergents that aren't usually tested for? There must be something in ATF that has the ability to dissolve gum and varnish, otherwise valves would get sticky and passageways would become blocked. There are many more small moving parts and passageways in an automatic tranny that depend upon being clean for proper operation.

I too have noticed the cleaning properties of atf many times before, mainly when I change it and my hands always end up being clean in the end. It literally eats the grease off my hands(WD40 does the same thing too)...

That is an observation that could be due to any number of other things beside the detergent levels in ATF. An oil blender/tribologist/transmission designer will tell you there is no need for a high detergent levels in ATF, told you why, and I have shown you that there aren't as many detergents in ATF vs motor oil. My guess as to why ATF seems to clean your hands is that it doesn't have carbon in it. If you were to try that with used motor oil, it will also glean gunk on your hands but because it is dark with carbon or soot and oxidation residue, it will leave your hands dark. Try washing your hand in dark, oxidized ATF. It too will leave your hands dark. Try washing your hands in clean motor oil. It will do a good job too.

 

[idiabuse]

the Wix 51734XE would clean up that dirty oil in short order, I would bet nobody here has ever purchased one or even knew about it...
Gummy Oil is not the owners fault, it is the manufactures fault for making such a poor choice in product...


Javier

 

[Dave 001]

So as to ATF having any better cleaning ability than motor oil... sorry... it's a myth and a waste.

It could very well be an old wives tale....that idea has been around for years. But why do some guys (even on this forum) recommend filling an injection pump with it in order to clean it out?

Dave

 

[PwrSmoke]

It could very well be an old wives tale....that idea has been around for years. But why do some guys (even on this forum) recommend filling an injection pump with it in order to clean it out?

Dave

That's a new one on me. Especially considering how much better a solvent diesel fuel is than ATF. In the end, I think you answered your own question... "Old Wives' Tale."

 

[sle2115]

Use the Auto RX -
Instructions - pretty simple really
I put over 300,000 on my last three vehicles, 200,000 on the two before that...98% of the driving was over 50 miles each way to work, twice a day, or longer (to meetings, etc.) The ones run on dino oil still had build up, I changed the oil religiously at 3000, using only quality filters. I know getting the moisture out and all is great, but if there is a lot of build up, as was the case in one of my cars I bought used with 145,000 on it (sold it with over 400,000 on it) the oil NEVER removed the buildup, even using 3000 mile change interval, I had to tear it down at 300,000 and put a timing chain in it and it looked like someone baked a loaf of oil sludge bread under each valve cover! That was after I put 155,000 miles on it with 3000 mile change intervals, Wix filters, etc. The PO ran mobil non-synthetic. This is also one of the reasons I use synthetic and 10,000 mile change intervals in my daily drivers. I have Auto RX in my truck now and am getting ready to dump it as it has nearly 3000 on it. I used two full bottles (24oz) as with the big filter, it holds nearly 12 quarts.

STEP 1	Add Auto-Rx[SUP]®[/SUP]to a fresh fill of motor oil with a new filter at a rate of 2 fluid ounces per quart of sump capacity by dipstick measurement. Be careful not to overfill the crankcase.. Each bottle of Auto-Rx[SUP]®[/SUP] contains 12 fluid ounces.
STEP 2	Drive the vehicle as you normally would for a total of 3,000 miles.
STEP 3	Drain the Auto-Rx[SUP]®[/SUP]-fortified oil and refill, and install a new filter.
STEP 4	Drive 3,000 miles on this oil change interval and repeat step 3.
STEP 5	Congratulations! You have completed the recommended procedure.

 

[Hydro-idi]

I will be doing the auto-rx treatment in a couple weeks. Does anybody know......like RLDSL.....how often to use the auto-rx product? The website says to add a half container every oil change after treating engine with auto-rx.....but this seems awful expensive over time. Every 50k....100k???