Could you possibly post photo(s) of the required tooling? I am curious if they could be fabricated. Right now I would not know them if I saw them. I just know that they exist... I have tried to find them for sale but no dice...
early 6.9 piston cooling nozzles?
- Thread starter Black dawg
- Start date
Could you possibly post photo(s) of the required tooling? I am curious if they could be fabricated. Right now I would not know them if I saw them. I just know that they exist... I have tried to find them for sale but no dice...
The Warden
MiB Impersonator
For that matter, I wonder if it might be possible to reproduce the squirters themselves? If not, how practical is it to pull them out in a way that they can be re-installed and reused? Forgive the dumb question; I've been fortunate enough to not have to go into the bottom end of an early 6.9L, so I haven't had any direct experience here...the page I'm attaching implies that the press-in nozzles can't be reused, but I know that sometimes the book is different from the real world.
If neither of those are practical options, it seems to me that the early 6.9l's will need to be converted to the bolt-in nozzles (if that's really feasible; it's been mentioned on this thread, but has anyone actually done it? ...the page I'm posting says it can't be done, but maybe it is possible with some ingenuity)...or are there any other options short of junking the block and getting a later block?
FWIW it looks like they went to the bolt-in nozzles at block #237016, per this page from the 6.9L Update issued by Ford:
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jaluhn83
Full Access Member
When I did my motor around 2008, I got the nozzles from IH IIRC. Something like $30/ea too. Cost more for those 8 bloody bits of brass then getting the crank turned and new bearings!!
The tool is essentially a punch with a slot cut in the end to clear the nozzle - it bears against the flat outer edge of the insert section so you can drive it in. There's another large cylindrical section that fits in the main bearing bores and supports the punch aligned with the crank centerline. There's also a lip on the punch that acts as a stop to ensure the proper depth of the jet, but you can pretty easily eyeball this. Likewise, the alignment tool is just a pointer that fits over the jet....
So, the bottom line is that the installation tools can reasonably easily be fabricated well enough to get the job done.
I would suspect the jets on the op's motor fell out because they were damaged when removed and didn't fit back in properly. Since they're press fit, it's very possible for the brass to be deformed enough that it doesn't fit back in tightly enough. Honestly I'm amazed they came out well enough to use at all.... when I did mine there was no way they were coming out in anything other than mangled metal....
If it was me, I'd replace all 8 jets - if 2 fell out chances are good that the other 6 are questionable. If you can convert to the bolt in style that would be preferable, though I'm not sure how feasible this is. I'd also be concerned about possible oil starvation damage. If you have the motor apart I would absolutely check the bearing and pull both those pistons to check for scoring. Beyond that, I'd have some concern with the quality of the rebuild as a whole.....
The tool is essentially a punch with a slot cut in the end to clear the nozzle - it bears against the flat outer edge of the insert section so you can drive it in. There's another large cylindrical section that fits in the main bearing bores and supports the punch aligned with the crank centerline. There's also a lip on the punch that acts as a stop to ensure the proper depth of the jet, but you can pretty easily eyeball this. Likewise, the alignment tool is just a pointer that fits over the jet....
So, the bottom line is that the installation tools can reasonably easily be fabricated well enough to get the job done.
I would suspect the jets on the op's motor fell out because they were damaged when removed and didn't fit back in properly. Since they're press fit, it's very possible for the brass to be deformed enough that it doesn't fit back in tightly enough. Honestly I'm amazed they came out well enough to use at all.... when I did mine there was no way they were coming out in anything other than mangled metal....
If it was me, I'd replace all 8 jets - if 2 fell out chances are good that the other 6 are questionable. If you can convert to the bolt in style that would be preferable, though I'm not sure how feasible this is. I'd also be concerned about possible oil starvation damage. If you have the motor apart I would absolutely check the bearing and pull both those pistons to check for scoring. Beyond that, I'd have some concern with the quality of the rebuild as a whole.....
The Warden
MiB Impersonator
That's my first instinct as well...but, again, short of junking every pre-'86 6.9L when it comes time for a rebuild, if an oiler has to come out (i.e. if the cylinder walls are being refinished), I'm not sure how many options are out there unless a source for replacement oilers can be found or someone can successfully retrofit the bolt-in oilers.
This really sucks
Black dawg
Registered User
Based on the re used squirters and glued in freeze plugs, the whole thing will be torn down, will get to look at bearings for possible oil starvation.
I plan on replacing all 8 squirters, either new or bolted in used. I want to try to use this thing without spending much on it, but dont want to have problems either. Oh, and this is one of the blocks that will crack by the block heater.
I plan on replacing all 8 squirters, either new or bolted in used. I want to try to use this thing without spending much on it, but dont want to have problems either. Oh, and this is one of the blocks that will crack by the block heater.
That's my first instinct as well...but, again, short of junking every pre-'86 6.9L when it comes time for a rebuild, if an oiler has to come out (i.e. if the cylinder walls are being refinished), I'm not sure how many options are out there unless a source for replacement oilers can be found or someone can successfully retrofit the bolt-in oilers.
This really sucks
It does really suck... And I would add that even if the oilers were still available, that $30 each is prohibitive. At $240, that is just 240 reasons to search out a 1985.5 + block to rebuild. I have two 6.9 engines to work with, both with press in oilers. The info in this thread pretty well seals it for me... I don't want to put rebuild money into either one. I will either hold out for a late 6.9 or bite the bullet and sleeve a 7.3 to a 4" bore and get 1/2 inch head fasteners while I am at it. Seems doing an early 6.9 correctly isn't all that much cheaper if you can even find the parts and tools to do it at all...
jaluhn83
Full Access Member
Seems like it wouldn't be hard to fabricate replacement ones though - Take a set of bolt in ones and machine the body or sleeve and machine to the correct body od for the press in type.
Good reason to update to a later block given a chance to.
Good reason to update to a later block given a chance to.
The Warden
MiB Impersonator
Honestly, I've always thought that taking a 7.3L block and sleeving it to use 6.9L pistons would be the best way to go. That way, you have the thicker sidewalls to minimize the risk of cavitation, but you also have the bigger heat bolts (or, better yet, studs
)...itll cost money, but I think that's abotu the strongest you'll get an IDI block 
Certainly, I'm with you...unless someone comes up with a viable option, I think that, if my late '83 6.9L ever lets go, I'll find a 7.3L or late 6.9L block and use that instead of trying to rebuild this one...
Honestly, I've always thought that taking a 7.3L block and sleeving it to use 6.9L pistons would be the best way to go. That way, you have the thicker sidewalls to minimize the risk of cavitation, but you also have the bigger heat bolts (or, better yet, studs
Your machinist needs to source very thick sleeves to turn a 7.3 into a 6.9. My local shop quoted me $1,250 for the whole job, hot tank, magnaflux, 8 sleeves in stepped over bores, line bored and honed, deck surfacing and cam bearings installed. Having the same work done to a 6.9 block would run $250-$350 with no sleeving (depending on whether deck surfacing is needed). Since the machine work on another block costs roughly the same as the oilers... the choice is obvious. My local J-yard sells bare blocks for $95. I just don't know if I want to pop the extra grand to get 1/2 fasteners (studs of course...). My advice to the OP (since this ~is his thread
) would be to find another block or used engine to build off of. I would not sink another dime into an engine that could suddenly loose oil pressure and self destruct because of re-used piston oilers. If they have vice grip marks on them that is a bad, bad sign that corners were being cut. That is just my .02 if you need reliability...Black dawg
Registered User
as far as the oil psi, with engine completely warm, pressure was 5psi idle, but wouldnt go above 25psi revved up. Cold oil pressure appeared completely normal. I would have just used it this way (it was for a wood truck), but on a hot re start it took quite awhile to build pressure.
I am not scared to just fix this thing, money wise, that is the only way this project will happen.
BUT... I will always have an actual oil pressure gauge on an idi, as the factory 7psi switch "gauge" did not catch this issue, but having the real gauge alerted whoever it was when this project was new to the oil pressure problem.
I am not scared to just fix this thing, money wise, that is the only way this project will happen.
BUT... I will always have an actual oil pressure gauge on an idi, as the factory 7psi switch "gauge" did not catch this issue, but having the real gauge alerted whoever it was when this project was new to the oil pressure problem.
jaluhn83
Full Access Member
Sounds like the bearings would be okay, but since you're in there anyway may as well check to be sure.
I'd be worried about those 2 pistons - if it was under any real load those 2 likely got warm enough to scuff some..... The oil cooling absorbs a significant fraction of the piston heat - 50% maybe? So if you lose that it's going to substantially increase piston temps, especially as once it starts to get hot it'll scuff and that will generate more heat...
I'd be worried about those 2 pistons - if it was under any real load those 2 likely got warm enough to scuff some..... The oil cooling absorbs a significant fraction of the piston heat - 50% maybe? So if you lose that it's going to substantially increase piston temps, especially as once it starts to get hot it'll scuff and that will generate more heat...
Note to folks junking cavitated blocks: pull the piston oilers if they are bolt in. Save the bolts too as these are some sort of special bolts (according to FOMOCO).
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