C6 VRV Engagement Question . . .

[m002922]

My C6 is shifting into 2nd at 10mph, and 3rd at 15mph - I'm working through the possibilities, but have a basic question that I don't think has been covered.

For background: I've replaced the filter and fluid (Type F) (neither filter nor fluid looked bad - but this did come out of the pan - which I assume isn't ideal: https://photos.app.goo.gl/QKkbxm3zXAJcrxjv6 - if you can identify that for me I would be much obliged), and I adjusted the band with the external adjuster. I put in a shift kit because I had to pull the valve body anyway when I backed out the external adjuster too much and had to reset the band. At the time I did the shift kit I didn't realize how many shifting issues I had going on at once (modulator issue, VRV issue, etc). Anyway . . .

The Vacuum modulator has been replaced (old one did not have adjustment screw (original?) and fluid poured out of it - new one has an adjustment screw). So assume that was shot. Replaced that, still had the issue.

Today I find out about the VRV and am now investigating that. My IP is remanufactured (recently - bought by me), so I had to install it and place the VRV on it. When I did that I had no idea what I was doing or looking at - just didn't know what I didn't know.

Here is a picture of my VRV: https://photos.app.goo.gl/H2YiSQpQ2gTc78Lt8 (ignore that wiring in the background - I assure you it's perfect )

Here is a picture of my IP where the VRV mounts: https://photos.app.goo.gl/N55eYaZikL8bGGX37

I see how I believe the VRV is engaged (I assume some sort of metal piece engages against the green plastic) . . . the problem is I don't see anything on my IP shaft that sticks out far enough to engage those areas of the green part of the VRV. What is there doesn't seem to - to me - go deep enough to engage the VRV.

I'm wondering if there was a piece I was supposed to take off my old IP and install on this one that I failed to do . . . or maybe it was gone on my old one (who knows).

Can someone take a look at this and confirm for me whether my thinking is sound and whether I'm missing a piece of my IP? I just assume something from the IP has to engage with the VRV . . . and I'm not seeing that on my IP.

Thank you. I've learned so much from this forum and now have a 1984 6.9 IDI that is just about there . . . I have a feeling when I get this transmission thing sorted it's going to be like a new truck. I didn't realize the transmission was even shifting it was shifting so early.

 

[m002922]

Messed up the picture links before - should work now.

 

[Dirtleg]

I have a VRV on an IP in my shop and would check it for you if I wasn't 2000 miles away.

If by Wednesday morning (I'll be home then) you don't have an answer I can look for you.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

I see how I believe the VRV is engaged (I assume some sort of metal piece engages against the green plastic) . . . the problem is I don't see anything on my IP shaft that sticks out far enough to engage those areas of the green part of the VRV. What is there doesn't seem to - to me - go deep enough to engage the VRV.

I'm wondering if there was a piece I was supposed to take off my old IP and install on this one that I failed to do . . . or maybe it was gone on my old one (who knows).

Yes there's supposed to be a metal pin that goes through the shaft that fits into the center of your VRV. That's what engages your VRV and makes it shift later.

 

[m002922]

Anything unique about that pin, or can I craft anything that has the strength to turn the VRV and sits in place?

Thank you.

 

[IDIBRONCO]

Nothing special as far as I know.

 

[XOLATEM]

Your mystery part in your picture is/was the thrust washer between the pump and the direct drum...getting brittle and breaking away and falling out was a common problem back in the day.

If you don't want to destroy your pump, direct drum, valvebody and governor then you have to quit driving the truck, pull out the transmission and pull the pump and replace the washer at the very least.. If you want...you can save your fluid if it looks good...except...

You don't know how long that washer has been out of place and if there was a lot of metal particles generated and already circulating through the unit. Metal particles running though the unit is never a good thing...Ford units are more sensitive to metal contamination than say, a GM or Dodge unit...

The best thing to do right at the moment is to figure on rebuilding the transmission...additionally...that washer comes in different thicknesses to set up the fluid clearance between the geartrain, drums, and other working surfaces. You may need a thicker washer that the original to get things in order.

Your cooler in the radiator is going to need to be flushed properly...do not scrimp on this...if you want things to go well...and not be a continuing, miserable and expensive headache.

Just out of curiosity...which shift kit did you put in the valvebody..?

Are you planning to do any heavy towing with this truck..? If it were mine...I would modify the lubrication circuit to keep from having a what-used-to-be a common problem with all but the latest versions of C-6. Heavy usage would eventually catch up with you in unmodified trim.

As far as your vacuum system to the vacuum modulator...if the old can was leaking fluid...there is probably trans fluid all though the vacuum system...I would take it all apart and inspect it for fluid damage...fluid makes the rubber hoses swell and get soft and slippery...best to replace it all and start over...

Don't look at all of this as a problem...it is just a great learning opportunity...didn't you sign up for this when you decided to join the 6.9 fraternity..?

You will be the first guy on your block to know the intimate details of your driveline...your neighbor women will swoon and the guys will be jealous...Kids will be flocking around and snapping pictures and updating their fb page...if you are real lucky...the news folks will want a statement...

Good luck Moo2922....

 

[m002922]

XOLATEM,

Thank you for the thorough analysis. Having (badly) rebuilt a 4L80e before (it was drivable, but I believe the shaft bearing somehow unseated itself, causing havoc . . . which resulted in an ~$5k learning experience) I figured the part was something important, and ultimately meant the right thing to do is to rebuild, but . . .

This is a farm truck that just needs to get itself to the farm . . . so it's going to run as is (no towing - I have another truck for that) for as long as possible (around the "farm") before I eventually replace the 6.9 (which, wait for it . . . has a cracked block by the passenger side freeze plugs - this truck appears to have all the classic 6.9/7.3 IDI issues I didn't know about before I bought it) and add an AOD (at least, that is the plan). Given it will barely be exercised as it sits on the farm, that may be 10 years from now. By then we might be allowed to by diesel. Who knows.

I don't know if the thrust washer fell out when I was messing with the band, or if it was out of there for some time, but when I pulled the fluid there wasn't a sign of metal anywhere in the transmission. The odometer on this truck says 93k miles and that may be an actual 93k miles, because I think it was 1 owner in Southern MD and literally never left the Pax River area.

If the truck wasn't so solid with a beautiful undercarriage for almost 40 years old (did they all get undercoated, or did someone just go crazy on mine?) I would probably be better off driving it somewhere and abandoning it. The work that has already gone into this thing is incredible.

But, as you say, A LOT of learning has occurred (the swooning, not so much). I owned a mercedes diesel awhile ago, but I feel like I've learned a lot more from this diesel.

 

[m002922]

XOLATEM, oh, and I used the B&M shift kit - which a lot of people said wasn't worth the effort (it is a very basic kit that seems to not do much - but I haven't had the transmission working properly the whole time, so I'm probably not the right one to assess it) - but I was in there and was trying to just to help the transmission survive a bit longer (before I realized I had a serious VRV issue) and . . . doing it was a mistake and likely a waste of my time, but, whatever.

 

[XOLATEM]

Hey m002922...

Thanks for the reply and update and thanks for the recognition...

I am glad to hear that the truck is in fairly decent shape all things considered...who knows what the future may have you do..?

That B&M kit at least got you familiar with the valvebody...kinda cute, isn't it..? On this I have to brag about this just once...

Over the years I had worked over what might be hundreds of C-6 valve bodies...and had a few of them in pieces sitting all stacked up on a shelf with a box of misc. springs, valves, castings, seperator plates...what have you...and the designs had changed some over the years so you had to know what- went- with- what to not put together a POS...

Well...a guy with a Mustang that had a Cleveland 351 and a C-6 showed up one day and he wanted the unit rebuilt and to take the manual valvebody out and put in a shift-kitted auto valvebody....

The manual valvebody was modified to the point of no return....

I did not have a complete VB to give him...so...I had to build one from scratch...from all of my spare parts...hand picked parts...one-by-one...the compatible castings, springs, valves, seperator plate, check valve, bolts...misc, and etc...

It worked..!! And well..!! The guy was happy with it...I told him what I had to do and he was ok with it...

Working with transmissions will give you a lot of satisfaction if you just go into it with the right mindset.

Good luck with your project and wishing you lots of prosperity on your farm.

 

[m002922]

You sir, are a hero.

Like I said, I tried to rebuild a trans using detailed videos and yada yada . . . and it was failing after 2k miles (but I do take some satisfaction in the fact that it did work well enough for me to drive it around and tow something with the truck . . . which means I could have done much worse). I learned a ton, and spent a ton of time on it and really enjoyed it (except the price tag).

But doing a transmission (myself) right is still on my list. But I'll probably do a turbo350 next time so that I'm only out $500 if I totally wonk it up. If I end up putting an AOD in this F250 I think I'll pay a professional for that because I won't want to do it twice.