6.9 or 7.3 Lifters Deal....

[cpdenton]

This is what I got. Seem to be good quality, but I have never dealt with roller lifters before.

So, are these worth using?

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[icanfixall]

I was afraid these were going to be bushing bearing and not needle bearing roller lifters. Keeping them or sending them back depends on how long your going to keep the engine. They will work but they have been known to freeze up and flatten the cam. Now if oil was pumped into the bushing to bearing journal I would say run it. A bushing bearing journal is much better support than a roller needle bearing. Only way to know for sure if thats how the bushing gets oiled is to take a lifter apart and look for an oil gallery to the bushing.

 

[cpdenton]

I don't mind to look in one, as long as it can be put back together...

Any tips on taking one apart to look for this oil journal?

 

[ZWilson07]

Yep I am in the same boat as you guys.

Still waiting to see from you all if they are worth keeping, or trying to send back or what?

and so these are bushing bearing roller lifters instead of needle bearing roller lifters, but the bushing bearing journal is better then the needle bearing journal or what? Im a little confused on that and the differenes; still new to some of this.

 

[cpdenton]

Sounds like the bushing bearings are stronger, but more prone to locking up and filing down a camshaft. Needle bearings are strong enough for our engines, and less prone to locking up. Bushing bearings are good as long as they have an oil journal to feed the bearing with oil, fighting the tendency to lock up.

I will probably be iced in at the house tomorrow. Seems like a good time to open one of these up and look for an oil journal down low. I will report back my findings as long as we have electricity......

 

[racin460]

Shipping mine back, I know in the item listing he says "there good USA quality not the china roller lifters that break" but the factory ones are needle bearings and my rebuild has 135,000 on it and look good, and I doubt that Navistar uses china lifters. Never had a problem with crane cams, comp cams and lunati roller lifters with needle bearings. So I'll run needle bearings. Just hope I can get mine back before the flood of them on this site start sending back and he gets mad and says F#*k you.

 

[wh1056]

Same boat here......
I robbed some money from the Christmas fund so I was sure to get a set of these - now we're hearing that they are paperweights?
Hopefully the wife loves them when she opens them Christmas morning.

 

[ZWilson07]

So is that basically the general consensus here that if Cpdenton opens em up and they have an oil journal to feed the bearing then they are good enough to keep and use?

But if not then we need to try and get our money back or sell them?

Also if he listed them as oem and had oem part number why are these bushing bearing vs needle bearing? Did all our 6.9 and 7.3 trucks come with needle bearing ones?

 

[cpdenton]

I had a minute this morning. I opened up that lifter, and found no oil journal feeding the bearing. I did, however, notice that the lifter seemed very well built other than the whole needle bearing vs. bushing situation.

I am not sure if I would be worried about these or not.....

Still on the fence.

What did international put in our engines?

 

[icanfixall]

International used both bushing and needle bearings. But I don't know why they changed or still use the bushing tyle bearing. Ask this question on other idi forums. See what comes up. These lifters fit many different engines like the GM 6.2 and 6.5 plus the early psd from the 94 to about 2001 engines. I have forgotten just how many engines use these roller lifters but not sure if the bushing or needle bearings are the most safe used types. My 1989 ifi 7.3 has needle bearing roller lifters in it when I opened it up.

 

[riotwarrior]

I'd only run needle bearing lifters myself if I was replacing lifters.

Needle bearing lifters get sufficient lube and require less lube than a bushing lifter, and if that bushing lifter is NOT pressure fed I'd be skeptical of it myself.

It all comes down to level of acceptance. Are you willing to accept a bushing roller lifter over a needle roller lifter? I did make an offer of 4 bucks and got a counter offer of 6 and chose not to buy. NOW I'm glad I did not waste my $$$ as it would be a royal pain to deal with return etc.

Bushings are likely OK in our applications btw, as we don't have HIGH spring pressure for valves thus not a great deal of pressure on the lifter unlike some other engines. Also we don't rev the crap out of our engines, unlike some others.

I'll leave it at that and for you all to sort out.

JM2CW

 

[ZWilson07]

Any more updates on this?

 

[JSVD]

i've been doing some reading on this. Bushings are better for shock loading, bearings are better when oil delivery is a problem. So most people who build performance engines opt for bushings as they are more worried about the actual durability of the bearing(bushing) rather than if it will always be receiving oil. A bushing being one piece is obviously more durable if it is striked by the cam... as it's hitting that one large piece. With a needle bearing a large impact can bend/break that one needle that's being hit and then the roller will seize. On the other hand if oil delivery is a problem what can happen is your bearing or bushing can seize and flatten your cam (among other things). It's pretty obvious why needle bearings are less prone to locking up as all the rollers are multiple pieces, rather than just one.

I was under the assumption that the oil pump and delivery in this motor is quite reliable? So perhaps there would be no problems with running bushed bearings. Then again, why risk it. If were not building this motor to be driven incredibly aggressively, it seems like needle bearings are the more reliable choice.

Long story short, one is not better than another. And there's a reason they're both sold.

 

[79jasper]

Bushing would maybe be better for the 910 valve springs?

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[ZWilson07]

Good info JSVD. The only bad thing is now I think we have even more questions then we do answers