Weird issue with timing my bull moose

[riotwarrior]

The function of how he adjusts the pump, being top of pump pushed to drivers side to advance vs top towards passengers is the only issue here.

A slipped harmonic would affect timing but does not affect how pump and meter reads timing.

Internal issues seem to be the only viable explanation. Perhaps a 3rd member is required to check before sending it back to Mel?

Did I read you had Towcat help you previously? Maybe if he has time you can do it again..no pun intended.

Lets stop for a moment and check a couple of things before getting to wound up.

First remove Fuel shut off wire so it won't start, then the lemon shaped cover for the IP retention bolts.

Now carefully bump the starter till timing mark on harmonic comes around and get it set in the 0 degree marker, that's the SHORT spot not the one the mag pickup goes in.

Now look at the IP retention bolt and dowel configuration and compare to Icanfixalls image he posts. That should lead us down the path that the IP is for sure installed in the correct spot, timed accordingly. If the first time it's out, roll engine over again and check once more, you may have been on exhaust stroke not compression/ignition.

Once you can verify that the IP is in correct location then we are in a better place to say IP or human error.

JM2CW

 

[icanfixall]

Brian when you remove the pump from the engine please contact Mel and ask if you can remove the back part of the pump inlet to reach the internal screen. This is to save you sending back a pump with a possible dirty screen that you can replace or clean yourself. At the edge of the top of the rear cone is a allen screw with a toothed keeper on it that holds that cone from rotating loose. then a wrench on the end of the cone at the flats. It lifts off very easy too. Hopefully the internal pump rotor, springs and vanes stay in their place. Those springs are the smallest part of this pump too. If you have a spare pump test working on that just to see whats ahead of you if you get to open your moose pump.

 

[IDIoit]

The function of how he adjusts the pump, being top of pump pushed to drivers side to advance vs top towards passengers is the only issue here.

A slipped harmonic would affect timing but does not affect how pump and meter reads timing.

Internal issues seem to be the only viable explanation. Perhaps a 3rd member is required to check before sending it back to Mel?

Did I read you had Towcat help you previously? Maybe if he has time you can do it again..no pun intended.

JM2CW

he dont have time for me.

my balancer has not spun

You must be registered for see images attach

even tho the mark is not on 0, they are still approximately where they are supposed to be.
hard to see, try squinting! lol

it would be nice if another member with a meter was local and had a meter, and the will to drive.
getting all 3 seems damn near impossible! The member yesterday was kind enough to help. and i hope he feels he was well compensated!
none of the shops around here time with meters either.

Gary, ill pay to have it shipped and him to check it out, even if he requires a fee, ive spent over 2600 on this truck in the past 6 weeks, and i want the damn thing dialed!

 

[BDCarrillo]

You sure you weren't reading BTDC and ATDC backwards?

Having it at 7 ATDC and going toward the passenger side would decrease the number, as you observed... then going towards drivers side to 9 ATDC you observed it to be sluggish... which fits for retarded timing and normal operation.

Having timed gassers with a light I did have a guy do this and couldn't figure out why it ran like poo. He just went the wrong way from "0"

 

[IDIoit]

You sure you weren't reading BTDC and ATDC backwards?

Having it at 7 ATDC and going toward the passenger side would decrease the number, as you observed... then going towards drivers side to 9 ATDC you observed it to be sluggish... which fits for retarded timing.

wow.... now this is the first thing ive heard that opened my eyes wide open....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za5sKp04btg&list=UUeOaJTOsAypB8fJnjLCWSkQ

 

[BDCarrillo]

GD that six door is **** inside!! Also, if the moose misters pop at a higher pressure, timing will be delayed slightly compared to the normal 1850. The shorter 6.9 lines may also affect things a teensy bit...

 

[IDIoit]

lol i accidently posted the wrong vid, look again

 

[kodiak98400]

the minus sign on the display means "ATDC" . Should be "BTDC".

 

[BDCarrillo]

Ding ding ding... IDIoit has earned the golden timing meter award!

And I've learned a few things, never having put a meter to my IDIs.

 

[riotwarrior]

here a vid I did...no - sign

White Rhino timed: https://youtu.be/H9n3lnwqTXk

 

[IDIoit]

i knew it was something i did!!!!
matter of fact, now that i think about it, turning the pump to the pass side is a PITA with my lines!!!
I DO BELIEVE WE HAVE SOLVED THIS ISSUE!!!!!
now, i need to rent a meter, again....GARY... CARL!!...

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!!!!

and the charger was accepted as a done project today...
HE SHOOTS! HE SCORES!!!!
definably needed some positives to my day, it started out awe full...
now... time to go hitch a ride on a boat!

 

[BDCarrillo]

i knew it was something i did!!!!
matter of fact, now that i think about it, turning the pump to the pass side is a PITA with my lines!!!
I DO BELIEVE WE HAVE SOLVED THIS ISSUE!!!!!
now, i need to rent a meter, again....GARY... CARL!!...

It was probably so far out that the other guys thought it was starting off advanced, thus their confusion.

L-O-effin-L at this one... we all jumped to very unique and in-depth possibilities and had some darn good suggestions tossed out there... but a minus sign got the better of us all!!

If you hadn't messaged me I probably wouldn't have looked at this thread (not having any IDI timing exp).

This ranks up there next to my blown up starter...

 

[IDIoit]

RIGHT!!!!
i mess with + and -'s all day long every day, and this kicked me in the **** something feirce!
ive been racking my brain on this for the better part of 4 weeks....
******* rookies, i tell ya!

 

[BDCarrillo]

I nominate you to write a timing 101 thread with whatever specific meter you end up using.

Turn this to lemonade by recording EGTs so we can prove that blindly turning up a pump is (or isn't) dangerous.

 

[icanfixall]

My God that was simple in the end. I knew it was something simple that we collectively were overlooking. I just don't recall us ever talking about this plus and minus sign on the meters. I do recall you asking if you messed up my meter because it would resort to a minus sign when you shut down the engine. Funny how I would not think you started out so far retarded but now it makes sense. Good find guys.