Started my DT360 swap yesterday

[defecater]

Nice to see someone else doing this swap, but why didn't you keep the motor more forward and not cut up your firewall? I was able to position mine just fine in the factory engine bay by removing the original engine cradle. I'm switching my front pulleys to agricultural pulleys and may have enough room left over to run a mechanical fan still. As for a Trans I'm running an Allison 1000 from a duramax with an Allison 2000 bellhousing. Here's a link to my thread...

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/94-98-7-3l-general-powerstroke-discussion/233409-truck-update.html

I had read somewhere that ag front dress items took up less room, but ag junkyards around here are plentiful, but expensive, so I did not pursue that option. Too late for my swap, but just out of curiosity, how much difference do the ag parts make??

Probably the biggest difference between you not having to do firewall mods and me having to is because mine is a 2wd and yours is a solid axle 4x4. By removing your factory crossmember, I imagine you got yours down in the frame a lot lower than I could. Plus, I probably skimmed past it in your thread, but it looks like your truck has some lift to boot, no??
Having a twin I beam or TTB suspension obviously keeps one from removing the crossmember because the suspension pivot points are mounted to it. I thought I would cut and channel an inch or two out of my crossmember to get the engine lower, but that was quickly found to be a no go because of how close the beam pivots were in the area I was wanting to cut out.

 

[defecater]

I finally brought the truck home from the shop a couple of weeks ago. The shop ownwer was a nice guy and we chatted about my truck for a good bit. They moved my pyrometer sensor to the downstream side of the turbo. Apparently the exhaust was not running as hot as I had thought. I had the thermocouple mounted in the exhaust right as it came out of the manifold- nothing wrong with that, but he said in that location I should have factored in another 400 degrees of heat to reach my danger limit. With it in the new spot, I am now correctly looking at 1100ish as a limit. Plus, he said it is not all that unusual for a thermocouple to break off and trash a turbo when mounted upstream of the turbo. They also turned up the pump a bit (shop that rebuilt it was supposed to have done that from the get go) And he told me he thought I had a serious restriction in my intercooler piping going from the turbo to the intercooler because I ran 2 inch from the turbo outlet all the way to the intercooler before adapting it up to 3.25.

Anyway, got it home, fixed the dragging hydrobbost issue and started fiddling with it again. Before I "fixed" the intercooler restriction, I drove it a bit just to see what the pump turned up would do. Very noticable difference from before, but still not the kind of power I was hoping for. I will actually roll some coal when towing a vehicle after shifting gears now. Before, there was barely any black smoke to be seen when lugging the engine. Exhaust temp now is typically reading 5-600 range, maybe cracking barely into the 700 range when towing a vehicle-- (which seems a bit too cool to me)
I got the stuff to adapt the intercooler piping to 3 inch right out of the turbo, and put it on this last weekend. Tested it out and found no real difference that I could tell in power. Just tried advancing the timing from 19 up to 22 today and towed a vehicle in the early afternoon- no big noticable difference either, other than the engine seemed a little louder inside the truck, but quieter outside. Might have been a little more torque at highway speeds, but could have been my imagination too.

I did put some peel and stick sound deadener on the firewall and doghouse. I t quieted the engine noise somewhat, but I am getting a pretty good whine/buzz from the transmission and shifter.

My next attempt at getting some power out of this is a 4 inch exhaust instead of the 3 on it. The shop owner that I talked too thought it could be an issue once I got the "restriction" in the intercooler piping fixed. Got the stuff to do the exhaust today, but likey wont get after it for a couple of weeks- need to focus my attention on other things for a bit.

Any suggestions for why this isnt making the power I hoped it would or how to quiet down the transmission noise????? I could live with the noise for short, close to home trips, but this is supposed to ultimately be my long distance tow rig.

 

[bike-maker]

Dang it, you need to get some more power out of that, you're making me second guess own Dt360 swap.
You still running the stock turbo?
And I'm curious about the ag balancer as well. The way it looks right now, the tranny would have to move back about 4" just for the balancer and pulleys to clear the radiator.

 

[defecater]

Yeah, this is getting really disappointing so far for the effort and money I have put into it. I am ALMOST ready to concede that a Cummins would have been better(but still overdone)

On another note, it seems like this engine just runs up to a certain RPM and just hits a wall. Not shure what that that RPM is, because I dont have the tach functioning yet. Now that I have been working on it for a while, I see that the idea of notching one of the extra sheaves on the water pump for the original tach sensor to read might not be as dangerous as I originally thought- still kind of a risk, but I dont see me working on things in that area with the engine running, hopefully. So maybe I will try that after all. I guess the RPM issue I am getting at, is that because the shop that went through the pump apparently didnt turn the fuel up, maybe they didnt turn up the RPM limit like I asked either. Wont know till I get the tach going.

Turbo is not the original. Using a Holset HX35. Read somewhere it would be a better turbo, and the guy I work with that is big into pulling, says it would be a great turbo for that size engine too.

Dont know who to believe anymore really.

 

[hesutton]

With EGT's so low, you need more fuel. What's your govenor set at? Any other mods other than the Hx35 and turning up the pump?

I'd recommend giving Brent Payne a call at Gene's Machine Shop. They've done these swaps before and he knows how to make these DT's run! Don't get discouraged. There is a ton of power potential in that DT, just need to know how to unleash it.

Heath

 

[swamp_ratt]

I had read somewhere that ag front dress items took up less room, but ag junkyards around here are plentiful, but expensive, so I did not pursue that option. Too late for my swap, but just out of curiosity, how much difference do the ag parts make??

Probably the biggest difference between you not having to do firewall mods and me having to is because mine is a 2wd and yours is a solid axle 4x4. By removing your factory crossmember, I imagine you got yours down in the frame a lot lower than I could. Plus, I probably skimmed past it in your thread, but it looks like your truck has some lift to boot, no??
Having a twin I beam or TTB suspension obviously keeps one from removing the crossmember because the suspension pivot points are mounted to it. I thought I would cut and channel an inch or two out of my crossmember to get the engine lower, but that was quickly found to be a no go because of how close the beam pivots were in the area I was wanting to cut out.

I don't know how much difference the ac pulleys make, but judging by a guy who has one in his 80 k20 chevy the balancer is probably 3 inches shallower and a LOT smaller diameter. My truck is not lifted... Yet. I will be doing a sky 3 inch shackle reversal lift up front. In back, my new axle has a 1 inch taller perch so I am going to order 5 inch blocks (1 inch taller than stock) and upgrade to 3/4 inch u bolts. This way it will sit mostly level. Still a smudge higher in back. Yes my engine is a LOT farther down in my frame. It actually puts the crank centerline almost exactly where it was with the 7.3 in the truck. I posted a wanted add on pulloff.com for the ag balancer and was able to pick one up for 87 bucks shipped. For the water pump, I just cut the snout on it and removed the outter pulley. I will post more pics as soon as my pump, injectors and adapters come back. I'm putting a maxed out 12mm p7100 with 5x20 injectors in it. I'm goin with either a holset hx50 or hx52 primary turbo with a holset ht4 atmosphere (85mm) and I will have enough fuel for 1000 or so and enough air for around 12-1300. The injectors are good for 1600, but the pump won't be

 

[swamp_ratt]

Also, if you want more out of it, get rid of that hx35 and go with an hx40! Hx35 is the stock turbo on a 5.9 cummins! It's barely bigger than the factory turbo you took off if at all! If you need any help with your engine, shoot me a pm and I'll help ya out. I would highly suggest the hx40 with some injector work and switch to a p7100! I can get ya the adapters for the p7100 for 400 bucks, a pump can be had cheap enough and much easier to deal with and less temperamental! Honestly, for towing, a great setup for you would be hx40 over ht3b compounds! That all will liven your motor up and you'll be capable of 800 or so and quite reliably!

 

[hesutton]

800 horse/1600+ ft/lbs

I love the sound of that!

Heath

 

[swamp_ratt]

I just got my pump back. 480cc. Should have more parts back next week hopefully. I looked into the water pump stuff and truck and tractor are the same. Seeing that, I just modified my water pump. I'll have pictures on my thread once I get some more work done to it

 

[6.9poweredscout]

i'm ready to yank this junk powerstroke out of my '97 and go 360....

 

[swamp_ratt]

i'm ready to yank this junk powerstroke out of my '97 and go 360....

Haha, do it. I have a parts list and step by step instructions of how to do it like I am now!

 

[defecater]

Also, if you want more out of it, get rid of that hx35 and go with an hx40! Hx35 is the stock turbo on a 5.9 cummins! It's barely bigger than the factory turbo you took off if at all! If you need any help with your engine, shoot me a pm and I'll help ya out. I would highly suggest the hx40 with some injector work and switch to a p7100! I can get ya the adapters for the p7100 for 400 bucks, a pump can be had cheap enough and much easier to deal with and less temperamental! Honestly, for towing, a great setup for you would be hx40 over ht3b compounds! That all will liven your motor up and you'll be capable of 800 or so and quite reliably!

I am not convinced of the HX45 being a good choice for me. The puller guy here at work told me that they are known to shear the shaft because it is too small to take the stress when the turbo decellerates. too much mass in the turbine and compressor for the small shaft to handle. Manual transmission makes the issue worse. He suggested that if I want a bigger turbo that I get a Borg Warner S300.

Anyway, heres an update. I needed to use the truck to go to a swap meet last weekend. I did'nt have time to redo my exhaust with 4 inch, but I did turn up the fuel and the RPM by the Youtube videos made by neverenuffHP. I turned the fuel screw out pretty much all the way till it came out, then turned it back in about 2 turns and locked it down- ended up being about 5 turns out. Tightened the govenor springs up 4 clicks. I was towing a trailer with my 4X4 buggy on it with a bed full of stuff to sell, and some stuff on the trailer underneath the buggy too. Also had a decent sized pop up camper behind the car trailer. Easily the heaviest load I have pulled so far with the DT360. The engine does wind out more, but tightening the springs did make it idle noticably higher too. Annoying at first, but I have gotten used to it already. Pulling hills, it would hold it's own, or even accelerate up them if I really wanted too, but it took a lot of throttle. Could get the boost up to 32ish lbs and the EGT up to 850 really putting my foot in it going up hills. When accelerating through the gears, I would get a LOT of black smoke after I upshifted untill the RPM's came back up. Might adjust the pump to get rid of some of that lower RPM smoke, or maybe I am running at too low of an RPM??? I took the front water pump pulley off this afternoon in preparation to notch some teeth into it for the tach sensor to read. Not knowing what RPM's I am running is getting old. Maybe thats part of my problem. Maybe I am lugging the engine too low. Might go ahead and take the fuel screw out completely too.

I am thinking that the still low EGT and the only small difference in turnining the fuel up means that my injectors are whats holding me back??? Any thoughts or input on that theory???

 

[ocnorb]

The only issue I see with that theory is the IDI guys are pumping a lot more fuel than originally designed for through smallish injectors. I'd guess that the IP is your restriction at this point.

32 psi should be around 300-320Hp if the same rule of thumb holds true on DTs as it is on 6BDs. 10 HP per psi boost or thereabouts.

 

[Deib]

That doesn't make any sense at all. 850 is all your seeing? Are you sure the pyro is good?
Boost isn't horrible but it sounds like your pump is all jacked up.
If you can't reach 1,200 degrees lugging this thing up a hill something is not right. You are not getting enough fuel.
You said it smokes at lower rpms, it should smoke all the way through the rpm range, Then you dial it down until you find a tolerable output you can live with it.

Could your fuel supply to the pump not be big enough? Or a restriction in the return line somewhere? Do you have a PSI gauge where as you can watch your supply pressure and make sure you are not running out of fuel?
That might be a good thing to do, just to eliminate the easy stuff.

 

[Exekiel69]

This is just an observation from I have read, seen and done in My case. The dt360 is an engine far superior to the 6bt, I don't want to get into all the detail but not only is built to last it can be rebuild worked on easier and resist a lot more than a 6bt, a little harder to get power out of it than a cummins but I can see one of this engines outlasting an already great reliable engine such as the 6bt. As stated, a p7100 IP will yield more fuel and with a good turbo/s setup it will give You all the power You can take.