Started my DT360 swap yesterday

[defecater]

After starting to aquire parts about 2 years ago (and even selling the truck, then buying it back 6 months later), I finally got down to the job of physically putting the engine in yesterday. Truck is a 94 F-350 crewcab dually 2wd that had a 7.3 in it previously, that threw a rod in the spring of 2010. The engine is out of a 1990 bus. I bought the engine for $300, with the knowledge that it needed IP work. Engine was originally in front of an Allison automatic, but I am using a 5 speed transmission from 2.5 ton military 6x6 that has OD 5th gear. If memory serves me right, it is an 3053a Spicer.

I went into the project fully accepting that some cutting would be unavoidable to the firewall because of the large clutch housing to run the Spicer 5 speed. We actually had to lift the cab off the frame about 8 or so inches to get the engine and transmission in as one assembly. By measurements so far, it is looking like 3 inches of body lift will be a good idea, or I would have to cut clear up into the cowl/wiper linkage area. Also going to have to cut and re-fab the drivers side floor because of the big clutch housing. It might actually be a good thing though, because it might make a comfy rest for the drivers right foot while pedalling it down the interstate with no cruise control. Right now the truck is at a friends shop, because mine isnt large enough to be doing an engine swap like that on a truck that long. Once we get the sheetmetal cut and push the engine back some more, we will build the engine mounts, then it will come back to my place for finishing. His shop has ****-poor lighting, so no pictures untill it comes back home.

Other observations so far- going to either have to cut a hole in the crossmember for the fuel filter, or remote mount it. Leaning towards remote option because I really dont want to go hackin on the crossmember any more than I have to. Going to have to do something about the coolant filter too. Cut hole in crossmember or tap and plug the holes in the filter mount, or maybe tap the holes in the filter mount for lines to remote mount it. I am leaning towards just tapping and plugging it and doing without the coolant filter.

Can anybody advise me to the feasability of pulling the oil cooler off the side of the block and replumbing/refabbing it to use a remote mount fin and tube cooler mounted up front in the airflow??

Maybe someone can learn from my project, and I am damn shure going to need some questions answered to get this finished.

 

[ocnorb]

Cool. Be interested to see how the 3053A works out. When researching my swap I kept hearing conflicting reports that ranged from "It bolts right up" to "It will work, but you have to make a special spacer for the bell and have the shaft turned down." Would be nice to know what the truth is.

Not sure on the oil cooler, but I know that a few good fleet mechanics roam this forum...hopefully they will be along shortly.

 

[bike-maker]

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For those who don't know what he's talking about with the coolant filter;

That big log hanging down low on the pass. side of the blocks is the oil cooler. To the rear of the oil cooler is the mount for the dual oil filters. And on the front of the cooler is the mount for the coolant filter. It is a 4070? filter, the same one I already use on my remote mounted setup hanging off of my fender. It's right smack in the way of the engine cross member for one of our trucks. I'm wondering if there isn't a way to plug it off and continue to run the remote mount filter plumbed into the heater hoses.
On the other side of the block, the fuel filter hangs in a similar location, but it is bolted on, and thus relocatable.

 

[defecater]

I think tapping some threads in the passages of the coolant filter head and plugging it would function just fine, and if one wanted to have a coolant filter, yes, they could plumb one into the heater circuit. The reason I asked about getting rid of the oil cooler, is because it looks like the coolant filter mount could end up dangerously close to hitting the crossmember when the engine torques over. Plus, it seems to me that a front mounted oil cooler in the airflow would cool the oil better than relatively hot coolant. Whats the odds it might cool the oil too much??? I didnt really want to just pull the cooler off, then find out there is no way to plumb it for an tube/fin cooler and then find out I need to buy some expensive O-rings to seal it back up, like the IDI do. I wont get to work on it again untill Sunday, so I got all week to wait on that advice.

As far as the Spicer, where to start,,,,,,,,,

I used the housing that came on the engine for the Allison automatic. I am under the impression that it is the same housing for clutch or auto. I got my transmission from a guy that parts out military trucks for$50, and found that the bolt pattern on the Spicer was smaller than the DT housing I found a manual flywheel and adapter ring at a junkyard, but they did not have a used clutch for me. I found what was claimed to be a DT360 clutch on ebay for $300 if I remember correctly(One of the more well known clutch places in Indiana). When I went to put it all together, I found that everything came up roughly an inch short of engaging properly. I decided to have the adapter ring and the housing both machined down to get everything moved in where it needed to be. Thats what really held this project up. I had the housing and ring at two different machinists, and gave up on waiting for both of them before finding a third that eagerly jumped right on it. I checked my measurements 4 or 5 times before putting it together and everything measured out fine, other than thepilot shaft needed about a half inch cut off or it would bottom out on the flywheel.

 

[TWeatherford]

The inside of that oil cooler (if its anything like the IDI) has a ton of fins the oil has to pass through. Its a very efficient heat exchanger. Exiting oil is close to coolant temp, which assuming it is basically a straight shot from the radiator to the cooler, isn't too hot. I wouldn't want to remount the oil cooler, there seems to be way too much guess work about whether it will cool enough or too much, when we already know that the stock cooler works properly for millions of combined miles on the road. But if its got to be moved then its got to be moved, I just think less unknowns is best as there will be plenty to sort through with a project like this.

I'd totally move the coolant and fuel filters. You could run your return from your heater core to a coolant filter on the passenger side frame rail, and then back up. Add a ball valve on the inlet and outlet so you can easily change it without all your coolant trying to escape on you. Same for the fuel filter, I have moved mine to the inside of the driver side frame rail just to get it out of my engine bay, allow for way easier and less messy filter changes (the spill can go on the ground in a catch pan instead of all over the top of my engine), and it allows me to run a quality, $7 filter instead of a quality $35+ stock filter. I run a Napa 4770 with a Napa 3115 filter.

I will be watching your build. Please take pictures, even if they're poor quality. The more the better. I hope to follow in your footsteps in a few years.

 

[hesutton]

The vast majority of DT's that I've seen in tractor pullers don't have an oil cooler. They bolt in block off plates or use the rear cooler port to supply oil pressure to something else. They also run remote filters for fuel and oil. The question is........ do you wanna buy those block off parts or just fab'em up. Any time I price stuff for my DT with a pulling shop, the sticker price for a special part is a bit higher than I think it should be.

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Heath

 

[bike-maker]

That's also an engine that doesn't run for more than a few minutes at a time...

 

[chvycmnslvr68]

I think tapping some threads in the passages of the coolant filter head and plugging it would function just fine, and if one wanted to have a coolant filter, yes, they could plumb one into the heater circuit. The reason I asked about getting rid of the oil cooler, is because it looks like the coolant filter mount could end up dangerously close to hitting the crossmember when the engine torques over. Plus, it seems to me that a front mounted oil cooler in the airflow would cool the oil better than relatively hot coolant. Whats the odds it might cool the oil too much??? I didnt really want to just pull the cooler off, then find out there is no way to plumb it for an tube/fin cooler and then find out I need to buy some expensive O-rings to seal it back up, like the IDI do. I wont get to work on it again untill Sunday, so I got all week to wait on that advice.

As far as the Spicer, where to start,,,,,,,,,

I used the housing that came on the engine for the Allison automatic. I am under the impression that it is the same housing for clutch or auto. I got my transmission from a guy that parts out military trucks for$50, and found that the bolt pattern on the Spicer was smaller than the DT housing I found a manual flywheel and adapter ring at a junkyard, but they did not have a used clutch for me. I found what was claimed to be a DT360 clutch on ebay for $300 if I remember correctly(One of the more well known clutch places in Indiana). When I went to put it all together, I found that everything came up roughly an inch short of engaging properly. I decided to have the adapter ring and the housing both machined down to get everything moved in where it needed to be. Thats what really held this project up. I had the housing and ring at two different machinists, and gave up on waiting for both of them before finding a third that eagerly jumped right on it. I checked my measurements 4 or 5 times before putting it together and everything measured out fine, other than thepilot shaft needed about a half inch cut off or it would bottom out on the flywheel.

I would recommend not removing the filter completely because the DT engine is sleeved and you have to stay on top of the chemical makeup of your coolant with a sleeved engine or you will have liner pitting problems ... otherwise known as electrolysis ... something that you don't have to worry about with a one piece block ... I was looking into putting a DT 466E in place of a power Joke a while back and the engine will bolt to the ford tranny if you use the adapter off of the 7.3 on the DT engine ... actually the 7.3 is a DT engine ... Its called the DT 444E. This might save you a lot of work rather than trying to use the larger spicer tranny ... you also wont have O/D wth the spicer trans ... which will kill your top end and you fuel economy .. and thats what its all about aint it ?....But seriously why didnt you just go with the cummins ... they are exactly the same power and cube ... so why not use one that everything is already figured out on what mods you can do to it to increase power ... and all the parts available to purchase online ... you are going to hate having the body lift you have to modify the steering .. the brake lines .. the wiring and your talking about major remodeling of the firewall and floorboard .. way tooo much work ... Anyway ... good luck ... I hope it all works out for you ...

 

[jhnlennon]

I would recommend not removing the filter completely because the DT engine is sleeved and you have to stay on top of the chemical makeup of your coolant with a sleeved engine or you will have liner pitting problems ... otherwise known as electrolysis ... something that you don't have to worry about with a one piece block ...

Thats a problem with any diesel engine, not just wet sleeve, the 7.3 IDI's are notorious for it. In fact even a few Cummins had trouble when coolant wasnt maintained....

 

[defecater]

I am by no means an expert on the bellhousing adapter issue, but from pretty much all the info I have read, the 7.3 and the DT360 do not share a common block pattern. If it were that easy, it would make the job a LOT easier, and there would seem to be more succesful swaps done out there. Doubtful that I will change my transmission plans now, but just to put that block bolt pattern issue to rest, can someone get pictures of the back of both blocks?? Obviously, I am not pulling my DT360 back apart.

The Spicer does indeed have an OD 5th gear, thats one of the main reasons I choose it

The body lift wont be that big of a deal. I am by no means a stranger to fabrication work.

And I actually did have a Cummins stashed away that I originally bought several years ago to swap into a 78 crew cab that pretty much got pushed to the waaaay back burner. Shure, I could have used it, but nowadays, a Cummins swap has gotten to be so common, that it is nothing more than yawn-inspiring to me. I am the type of person that likes building something different.

 

[defecater]

Well, I finally found a picture of a 7.3 adapter plate, and there is no way, no how that it is going to bolt to a DT360. Not like I was really likely to change my transmission plans, but at least it wont be nagging at me while I am cuttin and fabbin sheetmetal.

 

[hesutton]

That's also an engine that doesn't run for more than a few minutes at a time...

Very true. Typically for no more than 3-5 minutes with staging, pulling, and getting back to the pits. That engine actually doesn't run any coolant in the block at all. Just open to air (no water pump or freeze plugs). But, the point I didn't make very well was that you could use those ports to remote mount a cooler if that was needed. Same is true for the fuel and water filters. You aren't stuck with them at their "stock" location on the block.

Heath

 

[defecater]

Got the sheetmetal cut out of the way, and the engine placed where its gonna stay. Built the front block mounts, then slung a chain across the framerails to hold up the rear so I could take it back home.

I have some pics. Is there a way to transfer pics directly from my smartphone to this thread??

 

[freebird01]

i usually upload them to photobucket with the photobucket app then post the links from there

 

[gatorman21218]

you need anything from a 360? A buddy of mine has a 1700 with a 360 with a slight hole in the block. I'm sure there are other good parts on it if you are interested