Head pull and replace

[Zaggnutt]

I know you are busy but I hope you can take the time to give me a little more advice on the head swap... Heads are off an OB member donor 7.3 with 200k. They are going on the chuffer 89 SC.

The heads have been cleaned and pressure tested... They passed pressure test although I don't know how the test is administered or what value the information has. I am picking them up this week and replacing springs, seals that Typ4 provided. The Felpro gasket kit has head gaskets, valve cover gaskets, exhaust mani gaskets, and new copper injector washers. I got the Felpro valley pan with grommets and sealer.

If the heads passed a pressure test do I still need to lap them? I don't really know what the pressure test tells me or if the information is valuable.

Heath's advice was to spray Hylomar on the head gaskets, what do you do?

I have about $200 to spend on parts/tools for this project. A torque wrench, hylomar, and a 1/2" thread chaser for the head bolt holes, return line kit possibly the lapping kit if necessary. I am strongly considering buying a single set of head bolts in case one or two look iffy. Is there something else I need or something I do not?

What needs to be done to the block face to prep besides gasket scraping / cleaning? Are some level of nicks, dents on the piston crowns okay or completely unnacceptable? I have the chuff and I have a feeling there may be some damage. Engine is still in truck and will remain.

The heads came partially disassembled with the rockers and pushrods separate. The wear on the rockers all looked the same except for one where the little rectange wear mark looks more like a triangle. Rockers and pushrods were not with the corresponding heads so I don't know which goes where.

BACKGROUND: The $200 is all I got and the chuffer is my daily so I don't want to wait any longer to do this job for fear of being left with no wheels. This truck will be pulling a mowing trailer almost daily and plowing snow. Mowing season starts ASAP.

 

[Zaggnutt]

You must be registered for see images attach

I have no idea which valve this one corresponds to... maybe some sign of uneven wear on the valve stem would tell me?

 

[BDCarrillo]

Looks like the rocker arm was a tiny bit off center, resulting in that uneven wear.

 

[OLDBULL8]

On the push rods, if there is any sign of copper coating left on them, that end goes up into the rocker.
Being as the lifters are roller - hydraulic, the push rods will probably wear in OK.

That wear on the rocker shouldn't make any difference, might look at the valves for tell tale wear signs.

Pressure testing the heads only tell you the water jacket is not cracked.

If you have a good straight edge and feeler gauges, the head warp max is 0.006 end to end and end to end top to bottom like an X. There is no way you can lap in a head, unless it's done on a perfect lapping surface.

With 200K on the heads, a valve job should be done before installing, cost is usually $100 to $200 per head. If you can remove the valves and keep track of which hole they come out of, you could lap them in with valve lapping compound.
Nicks and or dents on the piston crowns are of no concern, unless they are a 1/2" deep.

 

[OLDBULL8]

Just remember, those heads weigh 85 lb each, and it's a ***** putting them on at an angle and getting them on the location dowel, without fuc**k up the head gasket. If you have an engine hoist, you can chain them at an angle and lower them slowly, may take several tries.

 

[IDIoit]

if youre looking for just a quick fix, on a budget, i say slap them on.

if you want longevity out of them, i would do a valve grind, new seats and guides.
i would also purchase studs, and new lifters.

putting these heads on are a PITA, if at all possiable, do it once, and be done with it.

clean everything throughly.

as far as piston condition, some minor dings on the top of the pistion they may be ok,
if its damaged on the outside diameter of the piston, inspect the cylinder walls carefully!

now is a great time to rotate the block and inspect ALL cylinder walls for any abnormal pitting that could be a sign of cavitation.

hope it works out for ya!

sometimes, its better and easier to use another block, and when you have it dialed, do an engine swap. JM2C

 

[Zaggnutt]

Great! Thanks.guys I.will.do.what I can to getemright before install. I'll price valve work before I pick them up. I'm interested in an inspection at the least.

 

[Zaggnutt]

The truck is a dedicated work truck and despite the fact that I am not a."good enough" kind of guy I think for this truck under these circumstances I need to make the exception. Thanks guys... where do you stand on head gasket treatment?

 

[OLDBULL8]

If ya ain't got any Hylomar, just spray the surfaces gasket, head and block with hair spray, your choice of fragrance, cheap **** will do, they'll stick like a flea on a dog.

 

[Zaggnutt]

If ya ain't got any Hylomar, just spray the surfaces gasket, head and block with hair spray, your choice of fragrance, cheap **** will do, they'll stick like a flea on a dog.

Lol man I sure needed that. Thank you!

 

[PwrSmoke]

If you want a quick-n-dirty test to see how well the valves are sealing, lay the heads up on the manifold surface and fill the ports with diesel fuel (at least unit all the valve portion is covered), being careful not to spill any on the outside of the head. Observe the valve for how much fuel is leaking by. Do all of them on one side, then flip the head over an do the others on the opposite side. You will likely see some leakage from the valve stems and that's normal.

On a new valve job you will get zero leakage but from there is a judgment call. A few drips over a period of time may not be a big deal because combustion pushes the valve closed a little tighter but the tighter the seal overall, the less leakage, the better. A lot of leakage indicates a problem.

I have hand lapped the valves on used heads many times. If the valves and seats are in decent to good shape, it's a useful endeavor but if not it'a a waste of time... lapping can't hall worn out seats that are misshapen, burned or pitted.

FWIW, I don't like to use anything on a head gasket, mainly because Of possible incompatibilities. Some things can interfere with the coatings that the manufactures use on the gasket. Don't know that it's of any use, frankly. Nothing you can use will seal agains combustion and the water jacket holes are so well sealed (look at them these days) so that anything else would seem to be a waste and maybe counter productive. I'm willing to have my mind changed on this and perhaps I am behind the technology curve on this issue, Hylomar is a good product, but when I was wrenching for a living the only gaskets we coated with anything were metal gaskets. When I was a Land Rover tech, we used copper gasket spray or Hylomar on the tin gasket of the Rover aluminum V8s.

 

[Zaggnutt]

On a new valve job you will get zero leakage but from there is a judgment call. A few drips over a period of time may not be a big deal because combustion pushes the valve closed a little tighter but the tighter the seal overall, the less leakage, the better. A lot of leakage indicates a problem.

I have hand lapped the valves on used heads many times. If the valves and seats are in decent to good shape, it's a useful endeavor but if not it'a a waste of time... lapping can't hall worn out seats that are misshapen, burned or pitted.

Thanks for all the info. Based on other threads I read I am thinking the thread chaser is a good idea to avoid possible broken head bolts, but I am only seeing the ARP chaser(s) for internal threads as a recognizable name. Is this the route I should be going? Is it worth it to buy a set so I can do other threads during the re-assembly? They are expensive otherwise I wouldn't even ask I would buy the set instead of the 1/2" for the head bolt only. Also, I can't see from pics how they attach to a tool.... do they have a female for a 3/8 drive? I guess it will make sense when I see it. I'm trying to understand how it will fit the length of a head bolt without the ratchet bottoming out on the hole...

Thanks for the tips on the Hylomar.

 

[Zaggnutt]

If ya ain't got any Hylomar, just spray the surfaces gasket, head and block with hair spray, your choice of fragrance, cheap **** will do, they'll stick like a flea on a dog.

Thanks for the tip on the Hylomar spray.... So the Hylomar is just sticky to help adhere the gasket? I will be honest I have no idea what the Hylomar is supposed to do I have just read several posters say they used it on HGaskets.

What will the machine shop do for a "valve job"?

 

[Zaggnutt]

if youre looking for just a quick fix, on a budget, i say slap them on.

if you want longevity out of them, i would do a valve grind, new seats and guides.
i would also purchase studs, and new lifters.

putting these heads on are a PITA, if at all possiable, do it once, and be done with it.

clean everything throughly.

as far as piston condition, some minor dings on the top of the pistion they may be ok,
if its damaged on the outside diameter of the piston, inspect the cylinder walls carefully!

now is a great time to rotate the block and inspect ALL cylinder walls for any abnormal pitting that could be a sign of cavitation.

hope it works out for ya!

sometimes, its better and easier to use another block, and when you have it dialed, do an engine swap. JM2C

Thanks man, appreciate the tips. I wish this wasn't a slap em on and go job, but I think that's what it will have to be. Depending on how the engine performs this season will determine what I do with it for the future. There's a good chance I am going to end up with the rest of the engine the donor heads came from so I will have a spare to start putting back together. I am chomping at the bit to get into this engine and get this problem solved so I can exhale and start the landscape/hardscape/mowing season. Then I can focus on the 4 door which is supposed to be my DD. Hopefully will be gettin' my hands on a 87 or 88 PTO dump with a 460 so I never have to unload a GD 16' trailer of **** by hand again.... Just need to figure out how I am paying for that one....

 

[PwrSmoke]

Thanks for all the info. Based on other threads I read I am thinking the thread chaser is a good idea to avoid possible broken head bolts, but I am only seeing the ARP chaser(s) for internal threads as a recognizable name. Is this the route I should be going? Is it worth it to buy a set so I can do other threads during the re-assembly? They are expensive otherwise I wouldn't even ask I would buy the set instead of the 1/2" for the head bolt only. Also, I can't see from pics how they attach to a tool.... do they have a female for a 3/8 drive? I guess it will make sense when I see it. I'm trying to understand how it will fit the length of a head bolt without the ratchet bottoming out on the hole...

Cleaning the threads in the block with a bottoming tap is always an important step to getting proper torque on the bolts. AFAIK, ARP only has taps, not dies, but you can get a thread-cleaning bottoming cap (not a thread cutting tap, google it to understand the diff if you don't). You can use a wire wheel to clean up the bolt threads. After cleaning the bolt holes with a tap. blow them out with air, then again with brakecleen and air again until they are sup clean. Then use motor oil on the threads of the bolt. ARP has a great lubricant, but it effects the torque values a little.. I don't know by how much but you could inquire to them if you wanted to use it. Clean threads with a light coating of motor oil is what the original torque specs were written for.

General question to those advocating Hylomar... is there a spray product? I don't see on in the catalog I have.