1993 Ford F-Super Duty XLT - "Log Truck" (new to me truck-pic heavy)

[SDEconVan]

The photos are large but not sharp enough. What camera? If it is a phone cam like I use, tap the screen to get
the focus box (or wipe the ATF off the lense, ha ha) I don't want to make a judgement call on those blurred spots
because it's right where I would be concerned.

Once you button the pump and install it, see if you get the Input Shaft issue that I had, if the shaft binds, the
pump will be a "no go".

Lastly, the pump is obviously not the issue, I got two people who need to get back to me, over 50 years total
experience so it might help if I get a response back. It will only be worth putting that, or any other pump in AFTER
you remedy the cause of the failures.

FOUR times brother. You are a fricking SOLDIER!!!

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

The photos are large but not sharp enough. What camera? If it is a phone cam like I use, tap the screen to get
the focus box (or wipe the ATF off the lense, ha ha) I don't want to make a judgement call on those blurred spots
because it's right where I would be concerned.

Once you button the pump and install it, see if you get the Input Shaft issue that I had, if the shaft binds, the
pump will be a "no go".

Lastly, the pump is obviously not the issue, I got two people who need to get back to me, over 50 years total
experience so it might help if I get a response back. It will only be worth putting that, or any other pump in AFTER
you remedy the cause of the failures.

FOUR times brother. You are a fricking SOLDIER!!!

im both disappointed in myself but relived to have figured out whats going on at the same time.
im pretty sure the issues have been the pumps the whole time.it's been my lack of experience and education in this matter that's been frigging me up.im learning the hard way.

so i believe iv got this all figure out.here's the story and im sticking to it:
1.pump #1 - just bushing failure/worn pump.190k miles.aged.she payed her dues.
2.replacement F5 (updated) pump number #1 - the bushing bore should have been honed out.when i installed the superior bushing,it fit way too snug on the converter and right here i should have known better.bushing spun due to being too tight,and it walked thus ruining the pump.this one was on me.my bad.
3.replacement F5 pump (updated) number #2 (current pump) with perfect bushing,but incorrectly installed gears by the salvage yard place on ebay.rather than checking it,i assumed (you know what we get for that) they assembled the pump[ correctly and just installed my transgo parts and bolted it back together as is.also my bad.however it didn't hurt the pump or bushing.i can simply pull and split the pump,spin the gear around and install a new seal and.................cross my fingers.but i think im top of this SOB now boys!

the photo's are very sharp but iv downsized them to fit the site.perhaps if you don't see anything bad enough means it's not too bad lol.it's really only as bad as it looks in those pics.
i'll see what this sites thinks of my full/high res pic............


oh it worked.nice.so just right click on this pic below and select view image.

 

[SDEconVan]

Okay I zoomed a little and it looks like metal smeared with something rather than a groove in the surface
the Gerator slides upon (9-toothed inner portion.) That should be good.

I would be VERY aware of any metal-to-metal sealing surfaces, that they have NO burrs and any scratches
will not lead to a leak of any kind. The pressure running in there is pretty high!

Mating surfaces got to be perfect, and no sealant allowed into those areas!

I'm waiting on a transmission guy to find out causes of the Forward Pump Bushing failures...

Best regards,
George

PS. Another thing that comes to mind is be sure the TransGo kit goes in right, you've done it enough times where
maybe something could get turned around, but I doubt it

 

[trackspeeder]

The photos are a bit blurry for me to see any real damage. But from what I can see you will be ok. Cleanup the pump body, reassemble and run it. Better yet. Drive it like you stole it.

 

[trackspeeder]

I'm waiting on a transmission guy to find out causes of the Forward Pump Bushing failures...

Best regards,
George

PS. Another thing that comes to mind is be sure the TransGo kit goes in right, you've done it enough times where
maybe something could get turned around, but I doubt it

Common cause for pump bushing failure is lack of lube. This can be from running out of fluid or excessive bushing or converter hub wear.

Another cause is out alignment. Damaged or missing dowel pins or missing bolts. The pump bushing cannot support the converter weight. This will create a hot spot making the bushing fail. Pretty much the same as low lube.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

The photos are a bit blurry for me to see any real damage. But from what I can see you will be ok. Cleanup the pump body, reassemble and run it. Better yet. Drive it like you stole it.

awesome! just what i wanted to hear.i will spend some time with some emery cloth and clean that up.there isn't anything more than what can be seen in the pic above.it's just a little tiny scratched and heated up burnt atf by the looks of it.it should clean up good.it's way above and beyond the original pumps cover condition was.
good deal then.iv got the new gasket seal set and converter nuts on their way.i'll toss these two f5 parts together with a correctly orientated center gear this time lmao and should be good to go.
best i can tell is this plan will result in a pump that will more than outlast the 190k mile trans.

what a ****** though cus i knew this setup was going to be flawless.if i had only noticed they flipped that gear over when they had it apart to inspect it,i could have flipped it,and been home free.........oh well.hey it's warm out and don't mind working on this old rig.......ok so the trans pulling is getting a bit old,but sometimes things just don't go right lol.im just glad iv got the thing figured out finally.

i guess i will need to pull the bushing though so i can drill out the drain back hole to 5/16 and install superior's bushing with built in hole and knurls to match the rest of the superior body mods.but as long as the bushing doesn't become too tight like the last pump,all should be cool.i learned my lesson with that.if if the converter doesn't slide in easy like it's suppose too,it wont ware in like you said.it'll just grab the converter and pull it right out.i'll have 2 oem style bushings (one from last seal kit and one with new one) in case the superior becomes too tight again.i'll just knock it out and press in a normal style.

now,this leads to a question.about staking that bushing.see how the instructions tell you to install it.and notice the drain back hole lines up too of course.but notice the damn seam will be right were you need to stake it.what should i do? just stake the one side?...............or better yet,just notch in a new stake point so that i can stake it off the bushing seam in two places?

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

let me find the superior bushing pump (now bad.that would be the first f5 replacement pump) snap a pic and show ya the issue with staking.here's the instructions and underside.
i'll snap a pic of the other side showing the bushing seam falling right in line (and what possibly made the bushing go out of round and caused that pump to be so tight (which then lead me at the time to accuse the converter) by staking it on the seam.....which i shouldn't have done.i don't understand why they'd place it there.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

now,i just confirm orientation with the 2nd (still good/current and unaltered by me) bushing.it's identical to how i installed superiors bushing in the 1st f5 (now bad cover) however from this view,you can see the stake point lands right at the bushing seam.
now what's more,you'll see i took another (new) superior bushing and placed it on top of this one.this might help show the bushing seam better.
while i was out in the garage,i also took and sat on a new bushing (from my seal kit's iv been using on ebay that comes with the updated viton seal)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-4x4-E4...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a61d81bde&vxp=mtr

notice it also, shares superiors flaw in design by placing the bushing seam right at the same location which lands at the oem stake point.
you can identify this bushing,as it also has a built in notch located at the drain hole (unlike oem does) but unlike superiors,it lacks the knurls at the bottom.

so what i think is the wisest course of action,would be to knock out the bushing (which did just get a little scared due to the incorrect pump gear origination and should now be changed.ideally anyway.) drill out the drain back hole to 5/16 like i did in the 1st f5 pump to match the whole kit (as i'll be using the 1sts/good superior modded f5 pumps body) then,while doing that,also drill another stake point which will be about 1/8 of and inch off the one that lines up with the bushing seam,sand that down baby butt smooth with no ridges,install the superior bushing as instructed and stake at the good points.
what say you? solid plan?


once again,this is the bad pump cover.1st f5.superior bushing and ebays bushing flaw design.all the same (now bad) pump cover.
(oh ok.only two came out decent.)
the bushing installed is superior.
the bushing with knurls sat on top is superior (this is the blurry pic.alter between this and below to find the seam.)
the bushing without knurls sat on top is from ebay seal kit.

so,although inexperienced (fairly low.iv transgo modded a pump before in chip truck) the issues iv been having,are not 100% my fault lol.if i used a "new" pump for example,no one would have taken it apart,flipped the gears over incorrectly and it wouldn't have came with a bushing to install that had a seam located right on a oem stake point.
now however,and at least for others in the future,those who deal with used parts need to insured they're put together correctly and not trust anyone else to do it for you,and if using aftermarket,don't trust that to be without issues either lol.hard way to learn pulling a trans 4 times,but least i know now or have an extremely darn good idea of what went wrong (the fault of mine in the end) each time.hopefully this saves someone some headaches down the road.that's the main thing now.
see your faults.admit your faults.learn from your faults.we all make 'em.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

ok so while waiting for the gasket kit/converter nuts to show up.i knocked out the old bushing drilled the drain back hole out to 5/16 and then went to press in the new superior bushing.no good.so tight it just started breaking at the seam.tried the one from the ebay kit and that one went it pretty good but then it was just too tight on the converter again.i called ford for a oem bushing but they said they don't sell them.you have to buy a whole pump assembly and for aftermarket bushings the housing must be honed out.
so iv got to take the pump cover up to a trans shop have them hone it out and press in a bushing for me so it fits right.im not putting this sucker back together wrong again lol.

with the oem bushing knocked out,you can see they placed the seam off to the side good,out of the way of the stake pockets.
i notched out another stake pocket simply angling a drill bit to make a little notch to accept a little staking no problem this way the bushing seam wont give fits.i'll explain to the trans guy what i did,and see if that's something he does as well.i can't imagine a trans guy doesn't run into this issue all the time and i can't think of a better way to remedy it than just notch your own stake pocket.

my god if i had this to do over again i would have just bought a reman f5 and avoided the gears installed incorrectly issues and bushing replacement blues.

 

[trackspeeder]

Wow, you will be having nightmares over that pump.

You could have drilled a new stake point. That would work fine. I'm sure the tranny shop will have it all fixed for you. Its time to start driving that beast. No more work, specially tranny work.

A reman Ford pump will run you about $350 clams. You still get to rip it apart for mods.

 

[SDEconVan]

Curious to see what he says about extra staking to prevent the problems. My trans guy Mike got back to me, first thing he said after my description "Are the dowels off somehow?" He has seen the alignment pins between Motor and Tranny either loosen or misalign causing the front bushing to fail.

He thought long about it, and said he's never seen anything else do that when using more than one Torque Converter, and more than one Pump.

Man, I hope your rebuild guy gets the pump right! What did he say about causes of bushing failure like that?

Best regards,
George

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

i don't know yet.i just did this just an hour or two ago.

well i bought this (twice lol)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E40D-F5-PUM...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f38179bdb&vxp=mtr

and i should have just bought this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E4OD-89-97-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a882dec84&vxp=mtr

and said frig the superior kit.just split the reman,install the transgo,upsize that one plug.bolt it back together and i would have been issue free.
i wonder if i should just do that now......but the thing is,now iv still got a complete decent f5/f5 combo all superior modded,transgo modded and good to go with a bushing pressed in for me.so i suppose it's pointless to do anything else at this point.
shoot,i may just keep going.i should get a set of calipers (which i really should have anyway)
http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-01407A-..._1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1403733779&sr=1-1

and something to hone the pump bore out with.i mean why stop now right?
i might as well keep learning and gain more experience doing new to me things.iv always just done the more basic shade tree guy stuff but expanding my knowledge just a bit more can't hurt anything.

anyone have suggestions on a tool to use for honing the pump bore to accept aftermarket bushings?

iv already learned the hard way with two pumps,a converter i didn't need,and a lot of atf (then blood sweat and tears) so i might as well keep going for a few more bucks and gain a bit more experience doing things.
im going to take great pride driving this old gal around leak free i tell ya what.

looks like Friday my new gasket kit will be here.it comes with a bushing so i'll use this one with the bore honed out correctly.

you know the sad part? i took my first f5 to the local machine shop to have the bore measured.he sat his calipers on it but i could tell he was in a hurry.he didn't do anything but press it in.i trusted he thought it mets the superior instructions and thats when i had the too tight of converter.
should have done it myself.should of just bought the tools......no more should haves.im going to now.the more i can do,the better.what something done right...........

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

it's a special delivery for log truck tonight.........................
Auto Crane 3203-PRX

this will load a log!

 

[SDEconVan]

"and i should have just bought this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E4OD-89-97-R...2dec84&vxp=mtr
and said frig the superior kit.just split the reman,install the transgo,upsize that one plug.bolt it back together and i
would have been issue free. i wonder if i should just do that now......"

Oh man that's exactly the same one I got, and that's what I'm doing, put the TransGo in it, and let it rock.

EBay ShiftRite seems okay, he's a solid guy, I said I thought the Input Shaft was binding in the F5, he
said he'd refund if I wasn't happy with it. Then a day later I installed the Pump the right way and it seems fine. My
Torque Converter fit fine also.

There might be a small cylinder hone for small engine pistons that could go on a drill, or a large brake hone. That said,
what's it cost to have a machine shop fit it for you where you live? They have the higher level of precise tools vs. a
hand held drill and hone. And that said, my F5 was fitted already, the parts mesh together fine once I got my act together
with the help of Members here and put the pump in right.

******************************

"...i might as well keep learning and gain more experience doing new to me things.iv always just done the more basic
shade tree guy stuff but expanding my knowledge just a bit more can't hurt anything."

YEP I found after my school years the only learning I was gonna do was by pushing myself- No one was gonna
hand it to me, they didn't walk the path I went on in life and I had plenty of ideas and things I wanted to do still...

So, I think tools are well worth it. Digital calipers helped me a bunch, but not just on my tranny project, I wondered
what size some round stock was and bam, I used it to get the number. Done that a bunch already, it's just my nature...

...Lastly, the whole reason I did my rebuild was I SUSPECTED the "rebuilt" trans that I got (with RECEIPTS!) was not the
real deal, I bought it off of him because he let it set there for 2 years, it was just a core to me. The guy I got it from paid
1200+ for the rebuild, told it was updated to '97 spec. I NEVER seen $1200 get a tranny built any good (around our area
anyways, LOTS of ListOfCraig's Trans Ads, $799 special- HA! Run away quickly.) Sure enough, I took it apart and you saw
it had the weakest CAR parts in it, a DIESEL 4x4 Transmission!!! Can't say I trust most of them, I found a few good vendors,
but don't waste your money if you can do it yourself and have pride of accomplishment!

I mean, imagine how much you'd have to pay a shop to remove and replace your transmission FIVE times?!! OH MAN!!!
YOU'RE SAVING MONEY BRO!!!

For not too much more money than that "rebuild" I got a Stage 3 E4OD!

Best regards,
George

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

ah you smart cookie.i wish i had just got that one.you'll be all set with flying colors with the gears all installed correctly lol and a new front bushing all installed for ya.
transgo mod it and let it rock....solid plan.
what about updating that plastic converter lock valve though while it's out? or i guess you already installed the pump right? it comes with the superior kit but it's also sold separately.that's a nice easy/quick little update while it's out.
i firmly believe this is why i lost OD in chip truck at 100k miles.i didn't know then,but i should have and would have now,asked the trans shop to show me the old pump so i could pull that valve to see if it was melted.
i think it was sonnax that i see has just this sold separately.......but i don't mean to instil fear in ya.especially if you've got it all together.

edit,oh i payed the local machine shop 20 bucks to press the bushing in for me.perhaps he did measure it correctly and it was fine though.he staked it in both places unknowing at the time,the bushing seam was at the oem stake point and that could have been the issue for knocking it out of round.i just don't know.
with the tools myself and a modded stake point this time,i'll be knowing.