trackspeeder
Stone crusher.
For $199 clams I would use it on an unknown tranny. Nothing to loose.
1993 Ford F-Super Duty XLT - "Log Truck" (new to me truck-pic heavy)
- Thread starter FORDF250HDXLT
- Start date
tonight on log truck.........log truck fights back! return of the E40D!
so after work today i started in,as everything had arrived.this time im 100% everything is going to work with a fresh used '95-97 F5/F5 pump and this time also a new torque converter.
recon FM64D (from ebay)
so the bushing (along with everything about the pump) looked spectacular and this time being so worried id frig something up lol i opted to keep it simple.
i set it on the new converter and perfect.i set it on the old one,and i couldn't quite tell what was wrong.it wasn't as tight as the last two pumps but it spun oddly when i turned it.i suspect the hub is out of round or something.i don't trust it that's for sure.junk now.
so i didn't go with the superior kit this time cus i didn't want to even mess with the bushing.i did toss the plastic and used the updated aluminum drain back valve and then split the pump and installed just transgo's pump mods.lined it back up,installed a new viton seal,tossed my new thrust washer on the back,a new pump gasket and o-ring and set her into the body and with fresh pump bolt gaskets torqued her down after seating it fully gently using a rubber mallet.
i set that converter in there and she spun free and bottomed out just like a new one should.i have no worries this will cure what ailed her right here.
i lined up the trans,got a few bell housing bolts in,all the new converter nuts,and the cross member bolted up.it's all downhill from here finishing everything up and filling her back up with lube tomorrow.iv no worries in the world now that the 3rd time is the charm.
stay tuned to channel 444 as the log truck show is just warming up.lot's of exciting things still to come as i tune up the idi,and outfit this truck to live up to it's name.
so after work today i started in,as everything had arrived.this time im 100% everything is going to work with a fresh used '95-97 F5/F5 pump and this time also a new torque converter.
recon FM64D (from ebay)
so the bushing (along with everything about the pump) looked spectacular and this time being so worried id frig something up lol i opted to keep it simple.
i set it on the new converter and perfect.i set it on the old one,and i couldn't quite tell what was wrong.it wasn't as tight as the last two pumps but it spun oddly when i turned it.i suspect the hub is out of round or something.i don't trust it that's for sure.junk now.
so i didn't go with the superior kit this time cus i didn't want to even mess with the bushing.i did toss the plastic and used the updated aluminum drain back valve and then split the pump and installed just transgo's pump mods.lined it back up,installed a new viton seal,tossed my new thrust washer on the back,a new pump gasket and o-ring and set her into the body and with fresh pump bolt gaskets torqued her down after seating it fully gently using a rubber mallet.
i set that converter in there and she spun free and bottomed out just like a new one should.i have no worries this will cure what ailed her right here.
i lined up the trans,got a few bell housing bolts in,all the new converter nuts,and the cross member bolted up.it's all downhill from here finishing everything up and filling her back up with lube tomorrow.iv no worries in the world now that the 3rd time is the charm.
stay tuned to channel 444 as the log truck show is just warming up.lot's of exciting things still to come as i tune up the idi,and outfit this truck to live up to it's name.
Attachments
trackspeeder
Stone crusher.
I like the siphon set up. 
good news and bad news.
the bad news is,that i filled it up,took it for a couple short test drives and she puked out all her fluid again.
the good news is,im all done with it.time to let someone else deal with it.i can't believe it.i thought for sure i had everything perfect this time and that i truly had the issue beat.
i don't understand it.
the bad news is,that i filled it up,took it for a couple short test drives and she puked out all her fluid again.
the good news is,im all done with it.time to let someone else deal with it.i can't believe it.i thought for sure i had everything perfect this time and that i truly had the issue beat.
i don't understand it.
i can't stand it.i just don't know when to quit! i don't know why this bushing keeps walking but i figure there has got to be a way to permanently set the bushing i mean who cares now.the pump is useless once the bushing slides forward because it must be tapered right? but so what if you can stake it in this manner;
take a look at how tci found a way to mod the pump bushing.all iv got to do is mod one of my pump covers like this and that bushing can't go anywhere after.
so simple,yet genius.
it's got to be worth a try...........right?
source:
http://cdn.lrsstatic.com/downloads/instructions/TCI-496500.pdf
take a look at how tci found a way to mod the pump bushing.all iv got to do is mod one of my pump covers like this and that bushing can't go anywhere after.
so simple,yet genius.
it's got to be worth a try...........right?
source:
http://cdn.lrsstatic.com/downloads/instructions/TCI-496500.pdf
Attachments
I'm rooting for you! Sorry, I don't know anything about automatic trans.
FORDF250HDXLT-
So you pound the bushing in place then stake it like this:
http://www.fourdoorbronco.com/board/showthread.php?6883-E4OD-rebuild
(go to post#13, look at the 18th photo)
And you staked it from the FRONT in two places?
(And not too hard with staking, just a bend in the metal, NO tears?)
And you clocked the bushing so the groove is at the bottom and the Input Shaft will
ride on it? That groove has to be that way or starvation will occur and the spinning
shaft will grab the bushing like nobody's business. Once it spins the bushing will migrate
toward the seal, taking out the seal as well, resulting in a catastrophic leak.
Of course the groove in the bushing also exits inward...
So you pound the bushing in place then stake it like this:
http://www.fourdoorbronco.com/board/showthread.php?6883-E4OD-rebuild
(go to post#13, look at the 18th photo)
And you staked it from the FRONT in two places?
You must be registered for see images attach
(And not too hard with staking, just a bend in the metal, NO tears?)
And you clocked the bushing so the groove is at the bottom and the Input Shaft will
ride on it? That groove has to be that way or starvation will occur and the spinning
shaft will grab the bushing like nobody's business. Once it spins the bushing will migrate
toward the seal, taking out the seal as well, resulting in a catastrophic leak.
Of course the groove in the bushing also exits inward...
Last edited:
i followed the bushing orientation using the superior instructions and yes staked from the front as oem did.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/sh...uck-pic-heavy)&p=805100&viewfull=1#post805100
this newest f5 pump looked great and after just replacing the bushing in a good f5 pump and having it walk like it did the old pump i didn't dare frig with it.i figured id just keep it simple this time since the bushing looked great.she still walked.i did buy another superior k062 kit,but i didn't install it.i simply left it oem but transferred over the metal drain back valve in place of the plastic one on the rear of the stator and transferred the transgo springs/valves over.
i replaced the seal but left the great looking bushing that was in there alone.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/sh...uck-pic-heavy)&p=805100&viewfull=1#post805100
this newest f5 pump looked great and after just replacing the bushing in a good f5 pump and having it walk like it did the old pump i didn't dare frig with it.i figured id just keep it simple this time since the bushing looked great.she still walked.i did buy another superior k062 kit,but i didn't install it.i simply left it oem but transferred over the metal drain back valve in place of the plastic one on the rear of the stator and transferred the transgo springs/valves over.
i replaced the seal but left the great looking bushing that was in there alone.
Last edited:
Your pump's have been good then (let us assume, using logic here)
Converter is okay, chances of a double failure are astronomical.
Input Shaft could have a wobble...
...the Converter would be beating on the stator real good and the weak link would be the
bushing (?)
I'll look and ask around for chronic "Pump Bushing Failure" (it's done the same thing every time, right?)
Converter is okay, chances of a double failure are astronomical.
Input Shaft could have a wobble...
...the Converter would be beating on the stator real good and the weak link would be the
bushing (?)
I'll look and ask around for chronic "Pump Bushing Failure" (it's done the same thing every time, right?)
Hmmm, just read that link. Could be a fluid starvation problem, gonna go learn more about the fluid circuit in that area...
well thats what i was wondering.what if the non updated/pre '95 center support has/is failing and causing the input shaft to not run true and it's,like you say has a wobble.if this happens it probably does this.complete guessing.iv no idea.
it's doing the same thing.all 3 times.iv no doubt if i pulled the trans again,id see the bushing walked forward.the only thing that can cause the front to drain just like a cooler hose unhooked would be the bushing blocked off the return hole.i mean it's a full pressure stream.
i dunno why i got lucky the last time and it only slid forward a little bit......oh well cus i had that superior bushing in it with the large hole built in that's why it didn't just gush like the oem bushings.with the hole in the bushing,a lot of the fluid could still return and not just get pushed 100% right out the seal.plus i had drilled out the return hole even larger on that pump.by far the superior kit is an advancement.but looks like tci takes it a step further and has ya stake the bushing so it can slide ahead.see those instructions with that one?...........but.i mean,even if i did that,it probably just means im on borrowed time cus something is making the bushings want to walk so quickly.somethings out of whack in the trans i fear.
it's doing the same thing.all 3 times.iv no doubt if i pulled the trans again,id see the bushing walked forward.the only thing that can cause the front to drain just like a cooler hose unhooked would be the bushing blocked off the return hole.i mean it's a full pressure stream.
i dunno why i got lucky the last time and it only slid forward a little bit......oh well cus i had that superior bushing in it with the large hole built in that's why it didn't just gush like the oem bushings.with the hole in the bushing,a lot of the fluid could still return and not just get pushed 100% right out the seal.plus i had drilled out the return hole even larger on that pump.by far the superior kit is an advancement.but looks like tci takes it a step further and has ya stake the bushing so it can slide ahead.see those instructions with that one?...........but.i mean,even if i did that,it probably just means im on borrowed time cus something is making the bushings want to walk so quickly.somethings out of whack in the trans i fear.
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Agreed, the problem is NOT the bushing itself, the problem shows up there. It is either upstream fluid-wise, or mechanically connected
to the bushing.
Wondering the history of the transmission? Was there ever a time it ran perfect while you've had it? Or has is always been like this?
*************************
Regarding starvation, it's probably not right at the bushing, you've looked at that immediate area over and over. Here is a look at my fresh F5,
(I had the seal out to put in a new Viton seal.)
See the stake on the left, it's just pushed in, no cuts or tears or smashes which could allow for a bearing to spin. Then notice on the
right, that galley notch in the Pump Case? the bushing has a notch that fits to the downstream edge of the galley notch. It MUST be
open like that to provide lubrication. *That's bone stock, not upgraded like yours.
Upgrading can cause doubt, but you've done them so carefully and so much that you can probably scratch it off the list of causes.
One guy got back to me and said he's seen pump bushings fail with an incorrectly installed gasket between the Center Support and Hub.
I will talk to my guy Mike on Monday, he has a lot of experience and can come up with some suggestions to pick from.
*************************
Your description of how the fluid is coming out is very valuable info.
The bushing spins and migrates forward... ...that could be too little fluid (starvation/upstream) or too much pressure (clog/downstream.)
(Right now I do not think it is a shaft wobble or center support mis-alignment issue, only because you drove it a bit before it blew.
If there was wobble, Oh Man, you'd know it!) How smooth did it run?
About 30 years ago I was doing engineering studies of bearings (called "tribology") and man you'd be surprised what 100-150 psi
of warmed up fluid can do to a press-fit part. Conceivably the fluid pressure could cause the Bushing to "float" in place. Fluids
can squeeze metal bushings just enough to make them shrink in their bore. Might want to track that down, that the fluid has a
"way out" from the bushing. <----The fact that fluid is gushing out of there at full force has me thinking this...
Maybe you are running fluid to the bushing so well, that it cannot drain quickly enough, thus the floating bushing...
...so if it is fluid related, the problem is upstream or downstream of the bushing and not more that one or two fluid circuits away
from it.
*************************
Anyways, any other information that might, or even a longshot that might, help is worth mentioning. The more people who know
about this problem, the more brain power you'll have working on it. It is NOT magic, it is one or two or a few little fixable problems,
which will probably make you slap your forehead and think, "Are you KIDDING ME?!!"
And you WILL meet your goal and you'll be able to move on, as originally planned...
...Shoot, you could pull the rip-cord and just buy a used temporary or hire a guy to assemble it, but that's not very sporting.
to the bushing.
Wondering the history of the transmission? Was there ever a time it ran perfect while you've had it? Or has is always been like this?
*************************
Regarding starvation, it's probably not right at the bushing, you've looked at that immediate area over and over. Here is a look at my fresh F5,
You must be registered for see images attach
(I had the seal out to put in a new Viton seal.)
See the stake on the left, it's just pushed in, no cuts or tears or smashes which could allow for a bearing to spin. Then notice on the
right, that galley notch in the Pump Case? the bushing has a notch that fits to the downstream edge of the galley notch. It MUST be
open like that to provide lubrication. *That's bone stock, not upgraded like yours.
Upgrading can cause doubt, but you've done them so carefully and so much that you can probably scratch it off the list of causes.
One guy got back to me and said he's seen pump bushings fail with an incorrectly installed gasket between the Center Support and Hub.
I will talk to my guy Mike on Monday, he has a lot of experience and can come up with some suggestions to pick from.
*************************
Your description of how the fluid is coming out is very valuable info.
The bushing spins and migrates forward... ...that could be too little fluid (starvation/upstream) or too much pressure (clog/downstream.)
(Right now I do not think it is a shaft wobble or center support mis-alignment issue, only because you drove it a bit before it blew.
If there was wobble, Oh Man, you'd know it!) How smooth did it run?
About 30 years ago I was doing engineering studies of bearings (called "tribology") and man you'd be surprised what 100-150 psi
of warmed up fluid can do to a press-fit part. Conceivably the fluid pressure could cause the Bushing to "float" in place. Fluids
can squeeze metal bushings just enough to make them shrink in their bore. Might want to track that down, that the fluid has a
"way out" from the bushing. <----The fact that fluid is gushing out of there at full force has me thinking this...
Maybe you are running fluid to the bushing so well, that it cannot drain quickly enough, thus the floating bushing...
...so if it is fluid related, the problem is upstream or downstream of the bushing and not more that one or two fluid circuits away
from it.
*************************
Anyways, any other information that might, or even a longshot that might, help is worth mentioning. The more people who know
about this problem, the more brain power you'll have working on it. It is NOT magic, it is one or two or a few little fixable problems,
which will probably make you slap your forehead and think, "Are you KIDDING ME?!!"
And you WILL meet your goal and you'll be able to move on, as originally planned...
...Shoot, you could pull the rip-cord and just buy a used temporary or hire a guy to assemble it, but that's not very sporting.
it drove under 75 miles issue free,then it started doing this.
*************************
the trans works awesome.if she didn't puke her fluid,it would run great.that's why im having a hard time giving up on it.
And you WILL meet your goal and you'll be able to move on, as originally planned...
...Shoot, you could pull the rip-cord and just buy a used temporary or hire a guy to assemble it, but that's not very sporting.
yeah she'll be running one way or the other in the end.i'll hate it because id like to be able to figure it out and fix it myself,but your right i may need to throw in the towel.a trans guy well versed may spot the issue right off and slap it back together and it runs issue free for years after this.hard to say.
trackspeeder
Stone crusher.
Well that sucks.
Here's a question for you. How does the transmission sit on the dowel pins. If its sloppy, you will have alignment issues. That means there will be pressurize on the converter hub. That can cause bushing failure.
Here's a question for you. How does the transmission sit on the dowel pins. If its sloppy, you will have alignment issues. That means there will be pressurize on the converter hub. That can cause bushing failure.
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