New engine- smoke issue please help

olBlue

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HI everyone, so a little background first. My 94 IDI turbo F250 blew up in the spring and I got a new ford short block, and rebuilt the heads. it has R&D injectors,rd-90 pump and stage 1 camshaft,ARP head studs.Also the entire fuel head system is deleted and a dual filter and elec. pump is ran(works great thanks to everyone here).

So last night I got the engine in and a couple cranks later it fires right up and idles very nicely. Bled out the coolant and it all looks good. Once i get the RPM up to 1500 or more in park the truck acts like its miss fireing and emits a lot of white/blue smokes out. If i give it a quick hard rev then it turns to black.

I set static timing to the match marks even though its not the factory pump and my snap on timing light and pulse adapter will be here the 11th. Does this sound like a timing issue? Maybe its too advanced? The truck starts immediatly without hesitation and idles smooth. Thanks for any help its greatly appreciated
 

jwalterus

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over-fueling

if anything, your timing would be retarded

you can't really tell in park, get it under load, bet you smoke like a choo-choo going up a hill
 

olBlue

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So do i turn the pump down some? I thought a rd-90 wouldn't be that big of change from stock. I will be putting a better intake setup on soon if the stock one is choking it. I have a banks downpipes and 4" exhaust too. Thanks
 

Thewespaul

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Sounds to me that your timing is just really off, I would try advancing it a dimes width
 

FORDF250HDXLT

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An OEM IP can already,easily,over fuel our engines with one of the common turbo kits.IMO you can't really max the fuel on even just an N/A spec IP without an intercooler and burn it all efficiently (or base decompression w/ larger turbo).
If you want a hotter IP than a turbo spec,you kinda need an intercooler,or else your going to have your eyes on the pryo,more than you will the road.:D

White smoke = Coolant or fuel.Typically,an injector issue with white smoke at idle.
Blue smoke = Oil.Typically,blue at idle means valve seals,under load means rings.
Black smoke = Over fueling.If you get a touch before the turbo spools,a smoke puff limiter helps drastically.If you have black under max load,your screw is up higher than your engine can ever make use of.
 

saburai

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An OEM IP can already,easily,over fuel our engines with one of the common turbo kits.IMO you can't really max the fuel on even just an N/A spec IP without an intercooler and burn it all efficiently (or base decompression w/ larger turbo).
If you want a hotter IP than a turbo spec,you kinda need an intercooler,or else your going to have your eyes on the pryo,more than you will the road.:D

White smoke = Coolant or fuel.Typically,an injector issue with white smoke at idle.
Blue smoke = Oil.Typically,blue at idle means valve seals,under load means rings.
Black smoke = Over fueling.If you get a touch before the turbo spools,a smoke puff limiter helps drastically.If you have black under max load,your screw is up higher than your engine can ever make use of.

Thanks! That's some very good information for guys like me who are new to diesels and our beloved idi engines in particular.
 

olBlue

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I adjusted it dimes with more advanced and it runs way better. No more big clouds of white/blue smoke or misfiring,just rolls black if i load the engine hard. I don't want to drive it until i get my timing tools so its timed right.Thanks again guys
 

riotwarrior

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I adjusted it dimes with more advanced and it runs way better. No more big clouds of white/blue smoke or misfiring,just rolls black if i load the engine hard. I don't want to drive it until i get my timing tools so its timed right.Thanks again guys
Timing registry
 

olBlue

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I timed the pump Saturday and ended up turning it about 1/4" advanced and I'm at 7deg. seems like a bit much but it runs very nice. i would like to loosen up the lines and go more to hit at least 9 deg. advance. any thoughts on this? Im am using a older Snap On dial timing light also which makes me think it may be off
 

jwalterus

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for 2°, I'd just grab the big channellocks and crank it over.....
loosening the lines is safer though
 

pelky350

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7' is supposed to be pretty optimal from the dyno runs Justin posted online with a 7.3 and factory turbo. I ran at 5' before now running 7' anythjng more seemed to be to much advanced imo we have a similar setup I have 90cc, stage1's and a factory kit but with typ4 upgraded intake side. How's that cam feel compared to stock?
 

olBlue

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Its got alot more power now than it ever did but I need to dyno it so i can get some real numbers. It idles pretty smooth. I honestly don't remember much when it was stock. It ran like crap when i got it then blew up.lol But I'm pretty happy with 7deg. Might have to figure out how to adjust transmission kickdown. It shifts rather quick getting on the highway then when i floor it the smoke starts rolling and then after like 3-5 sec it downshifts.
7' is supposed to be pretty optimal from the dyno runs Justin posted online with a 7.3 and factory turbo. I ran at 5' before now running 7' anythjng more seemed to be to much advanced imo we have a similar setup I have 90cc, stage1's and a factory kit but with typ4 upgraded intake side. How's that cam feel compared to stock?
 

Macrobb

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An OEM IP can already,easily,over fuel our engines with one of the common turbo kits.IMO you can't really max the fuel on even just an N/A spec IP without an intercooler and burn it all efficiently (or base decompression w/ larger turbo).
Sorry, I disagree. The common turbo kits are good for 250 at the wheels; stock IPs can only put out about 200-ish.
Provided your timing is correct(and don't have any pre-turbo exhaust leaks), the common turbo kits can easily clean up a stock IP, at least above about 2400RPM when you have the boost. Below that, no... because the stock turbos won't give you the boost, period.
Remember, though, that HP and torque peak on a turbo kit is somewhere around 2800 RPM, where the boost and fueling curves "cross over".

If you want a hotter IP than a turbo spec,you kinda need an intercooler,or else your going to have your eyes on the pryo,more than you will the road.:D
With a RD2-110, stock injectors and 250 at the wheels on a Ford-spec 093, I'm more limited by coolant temps than EGTs, for some reason. It all depends on timing, though - retard the timing a couple degrees, and you'll have higher EGTs and lower power.

White smoke = Coolant or fuel.Typically,an injector issue with white smoke at idle.
Yes and no. Could be coolant(would need to be a lot of coolant); most likely cause is retarded timing(unburned fuel).
I have never seen a set of injectors that is "perfectly" balanced; they all have some slight variation in them. When you retard the timing to the point that the engine barely runs, a couple of cylinders will be slightly more retarded than the others, and those will smoke white. You'll also have missing.
In addition, due to the "light load advance" cam, you can have an engine that idles OK, but as soon as you rev it up, it'll miss and smoke(because it goes from "marginally retarded" to "very retarded".

Blue smoke = Oil.Typically,blue at idle means valve seals,under load means rings.
Again, nope. It's partially burned fuel, usually. A properly timed IDI can easily /burn/ a quart of oil every 50 miles with no smoke at all.
I've also run an IDI with not only no valve seals, but a 1/8" gap instead of a valve guide*... It ticked quite a bit, but did not smoke.
You'll find that in almost all cases, advancing the timing will solve this problem, and give better power and fuel economy.
Simple as that.
Also, I'd note that just about every IDI I've come across has needed timing adjustments for optimum performance. It's the #1 thing I've seen ignored on all the (cheap) trucks I've bought.

(*The #1 exhaust valve was beating a hole into the piston due to improper valve recession, and just destroyed the guide
Here's a YT video of it running(and working) with that destroyed guide)

Black smoke = Over fueling.If you get a touch before the turbo spools,a smoke puff limiter helps drastically.If you have black under max load,your screw is up higher than your engine can ever make use of.
Yeah. I agree on this. That being said, the stock kits will never build good boost until you have some RPMs. If you put the engine under full load at 1800RPM, yes, you are going to be smoking black, and you should back off.
You adjust the fueling based on if you are smoking at max load /at 2700 RPM/, or where you actually have maximum boost. Otherwise, you just limit your top end.

Because you need more at the top end than you do down low, yeah, you need to be more careful with the throttle.
And yes, a Hypermax Smoke Puff Limiter is a /really/ good idea. When adjusted properly, it acts as a boost-referenced-fuel-limiter, effectively keeping the low-end fueling down to what the engine can burn, while allowing you to run as much fuel as possible up high where the boost can clean it up.
 

FORDF250HDXLT

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OK wow.Now your making me curious as to what would happen if I toss a bull moose onto log truck and ditch the maxed out N/A IP (log truck is already intercooled too).I knew there was a lot of added grunt,but I didn't know the oem maxed out at 200 ponies.I hate hanging out here.You guys are ******* the wallet.:D

Wait.Your not running an intercooler? Man,I dunno if I would try that (least not at 15-18k combined gross) myself but ok.I bet your the only driver? :D
 

pelky350

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Mine doesn't smoke too much anymore1500 and below it smokesbut by 2k rpms I have 10+psi and it's just a haze wot that with a factory kit with banks dp and typ4 60-1 wheel that thing screams in the hood anything about 2k rpms. No intercooler yet awaiting instal, egts were in check, pyro quit working but I don't plan on hauling anything for a Little
 

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