IP won't accept fuel....why?

[DOE-SST]

IP won't accept fuel....need screen help please

Pardon my newbness,

Yes, I've read dozens of threads.

Got a 1994 E350, 7.3l IDI.

It sat for about a year, the fuel was brown, but it still ran fine. Cleaned out the fuel tank, changed the fuel filter and removed the brown sludge in the FSS housing atop the IP. Very little of the old fuel actually got into the IP/injectors.

Ran fine, sat for a week, then no start. Temp is 101f today.

I cannot get any fuel to the injectors, even after 3 minutes of cranking using the lift pump. Lift pump is putting out 5psi and good volume. Using an electric wobble pump, I put diesel at 10psi to the metal fuel line that goes into the IP and waited for the FSS compartment to fill with fuel. First few attempts did not get fuel into the IP.


Using the elec pump, I can get the IP to SLOWLY fill with fuel, but still cannot get any fuel out of the IP to the injectors when cranking the engine.


Doe the IP have to have electrical power, or the engine turning, to accept fuel from the lift pump?


Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions



UPDATE #1....

I've got everything disconnected from the pump, including the three 5/16 bolts on the gear cover (50 ft/lbs???), and the three 9/16 nuts attaching the pump to the gear housing.

I've given the pump a gentle tug rearward, it moves slightly, but it feels like something is still attached. What am I forgetting?

What alignments do I need to maintain, and how should I do them?

Once the pump is off, how do I get to the screen?


Inquiring minds want to know, especially minds that are half-baked from 103f heat and are still fooling with an IP at 0130 hrs.

 

[icanfixall]

CAUTION.... Do not remove the gear cover from the block by the 4 bolts....Sounds like you plugged up the injection pump inlet screen in the nose of the pump. Its really not possible to safely remove it when its still bolted to the motor so... Make a center punch mark in the joint between the pump and the gear housing. Then remove the pump from the gear cover... Now when you try to align the pump again to the center punch mark all you do is make the circle punch mark match up...

 

[DOE-SST]

OKay,

I've removed the 8 injector lines and the fuel supply line going to the nose.

Using a mirror and a flashlight, looking into the nose, I don't see the screen, so is it further inside the nose?

Do I remove the nose from the pump base to access the screen?

How do you remove the nose?

The nose has tiny grooves about its circumference, with a small grooved tooth at the top which meshes with the grooves. The tooth is held in place with an allenhead screw. Am I correct in assuming this is what sets the timing?

To adjust the timing (not that I want to change it now), do I loosen the tooth, and turn the nose using the wrench flats on the end of the nose?

I understand creating an indexing mark using the center punch.


I really appreciate the help.

Man, I feel like such a noob. The Chilton's manual isn't a lot of help.

If ya ever need an aircraft rebuilt, give me a call.

 

[88beast]

no timing is the movement of pump to cover that thing you described dont mess with it youll never be able to fix it on youre own
the timing is why you center punch it on the joint between the ip and ip cover where you fill the oil

 

[93turbo_animal]

if you have that much all done just go ahead and take the pump off. You can remove the nose cone and get the filter out with the pump on the truck I've done it twice but I also knew exactly what was waiting on me inside since I helped tear apart an IP at the IDI rally but you need to take the screw out and remove the dog then the cone unscrews

 

[OLDBULL8]

Do you have voltage to the FSS? http://image57.webshots.com/657/5/17/19/2148517190090356897HVOXMk_fs.jpg
Have someone turn the key ON/OFF several times, you should hear a definite CLICK from the FSS if it's opening.

7.3 IDI sensor layout.

You must be registered for see images

Looking at the motor from the front, the FSS wire is the second one in the center from the intake towards the front (black line coming from the left). 1st wire is the cold advance solenoid.

The filter should have filtered out any **** from the tank, unless when hooking up the electric pump it plugged the FSS solenoid with ****.

 

[icanfixall]

Well your started in the right direction. Just don't remove the pump with the aluminum gear cover. If you do it that way the injection pump gear will come off with it. Then you loose the gear timing. The pump is held to the cover with 3 tiny 5/16 12 point head screws or bolts. They are behind the front cover plate. On a 7.3 motor its the thin plate. On the 6.9 motors its behind the oil fill spout. Its held on with 2 bolts with a 1/2 inch hex. The actual pump is nutted to this aluminum cover. They are 9/16 nuts. One on both sides down low and one right on top. They require a special wrench to get them off... Once the pump is off the motor you can easily get into the screen. There is alignment pins in this section so be careful how you remoce the parts... Others will chime in on what to look for as you get into the pump. That rusty looking stuff you are seeing is a growth stuff called alge. Its best to clean out the tanks and then run some alge killer too clean up the system. Just trying to kill the mess in the tanks and then running it thru the fuel filters will cost you planty in filters. Sorry for that bad news...

 

[DOE-SST]

The FSS and cold advance solenoid are working properly now. A week ago I removed the cover and cleaned out this area. The FSS would not move initially, and the arm that it pushes against was stuck until I cleaned the brown goop out.

The injector lines were about half restricted with gunk, but soaking in MEK cleaned them out nicely. The steel fuel line going into the IP was really full of it, so I'm pretty hopeful the diagnosis of a plugged filter is correct.

I do need the rubber grommet that seals the fuel line to the IP. Is this a generic part (from NAPA perhaps?) or do I need to see the dealer? Possibly a kit of seals available?

It's 10pm so I'll have to tackle removing the pump tomorrow. I'll update on my progress.

Thanks again for the help guys.

 

[OLDBULL8]

IH dealers have the fuel line seals. NAPA might also. Think you should get about 3-4 new filters while your at it.

 

[icanfixall]

Those fuel line seals are called olives and any good injection pump rebuild shop will have them. Two are on the fuel line from the filter to the injection pump and one is found way back on the drivers side head at the return lines. Its the three way fitting that the return lines feed into. Really hard to reach and work on. Usually I just remove that return line from the top of the injection pump that runs down that side of the intake manifold. Its the steel 3/8 inch line from the injection pump. There is two bolts that hold it to the intake manifold runners.

 

[DOE-SST]

UPDATE #1....

I've got everything disconnected from the pump, including the three 5/16 bolts on the gear cover (50 ft/lbs???), and the three 9/16 nuts attaching the pump to the gear housing.

I've given the pump a gentle tug rearward, it moves slightly, but it feels like something is still attached. What am I forgetting?

What alignments do I need to maintain, and how should I do them?

Once the pump is off, how do I get to the screen?


Inquiring minds want to know, especially minds that are half-baked from 103f heat and are still fooling with an IP at 0130 hrs.

 

[icanfixall]

Those thre little bolts under the front cover need 25 lbs of torque... Not 50 lbs... That will break them for sure. Now you posted that the pump slides out of the gear cover just a little bit and stops. Did you remove all three of the 9/16 inch nuts. Usually you need to move the pump towards the intake manifold air horn to get them off the studs. If they are removed just pull or pry it off the housing but don't ruin anything by prying too hard. There is an o ring on the housing to seal the pump in the cover. Hope this helps...

 

[DOE-SST]

Okaaaaaaay,

Got the pump off, and it cleaned up nicely.

Guess I should have pulled a bit harder the first time, my aircraft mindset worked against me. Forcing anything on an aircraft usually has bad consequences. I stripped out a quality socket and wrench getting those 5/16 bolts off.

The front shaft turns smoothly. I only turned it 1/4 turn, then returned it to its original position. Is it possible to get this 180 degrees out of time? I'd like to put 5 psi of diesel into the nose and turn it by hand, just to check for anything unusual. What direction of rotation?

A small squirt of carb cleaner into the nose drained out a dirty brown.

I've spent hours searching the net for instructions to remove the nose screen but have come up empty. Can anyone help me out?

You guys have been a great help so far, THANK YOU.

 

[icanfixall]

Glad you got the pump off the motor. The 180 degrees out of time can't happen by turning the pump. It will only fit the gear one way but... If that gear is ever removed from the motor it can be set 180 degrees out and be wrong.... As for removing the screen in the back I can't help you. I have not done it myself. I was talked thru it once but never did the job. I understand there is some pins that need to be aligned and its mostly impossible if the pump is on the motor. There is an o-ring on the rear head to body of the pump too. Somewhere on this site is a pump breakdown shouwing all this... Maybe Mel can point you in the correct direction...The small plate on the passenger side of the pump is an easy place to look inside the pump too. Its held on by two bolts that are 1/4 inch hex. Nothing will fall out if you remove this cover.

 

[gandalf]

There is a bit of reading which might help. One of the links from this site also has some blowup pictures of the DB-2 pump

DB-2 Injection Pump

I've just been through this same thing. I'm far from finished, but I'm not in a great rush either. My next step will be to filter all the fuel I have in the tanks.

For an indication of the extent of my infestation, look at the inside of my fuel filter.

I just told my system to insert a picture. Maybe it will happen.

Reference back to my posting on the same subject.

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