indoctrinated

[foresterdj]

Well, I am now fully indoctrinated into the IDI, air leak no start crowd. I bought my truck in March and at that time it had the 20 year old original fuel return lines, which must have leaked like fountains, since at that time the top of the engine had pools of leaked fuel. I changed those out a day or two after buying the truck and after a couple runs, the engine top was bone dry.

Truck started good all summer, especially after the new Beru glow plugs, Rrr, Rrr, Vroom.

A couple weeks ago, Rrr, Rrr, Rrr, Vroom, Hmmmm.

A week ago, Rrr, Rrr, Rrr, Rrr, Rrr, Vroom, Hmmm, well it is a bit cooler than summer, and batteries do need replacement before winter, but wait, the injector and fuel return line 2nd from rear on passenger side it wet. Hmmm.

This morning, 32 degrees, glow plugs cycle maybe 11 seconds and Rrr X 7 or 8, and Vroom, Hmmm. Hook up Jon boat and head to the pond to see if any stupid local ducks are still around. (None were, all well trained to stay far out of shotgun range.)

This afternoon it is Rrrr, X about 10 or 12 when it is rrr rrr r. S**t. Get out portable jump start unit, Rrr, Rrr X ~10 then pop pop pop...pop pop pop, vroom.

Do not shut off again until home, both rear injectors on passenger side seem wet. Same two that leaked a couple days after installation last spring, then dried up. So I guess I'll be putting in some new O-rings in those this week. I am assuming the new lines should be o.k.? May as well do the batteries while I am at it, was going to do them this fall anyway.

Any hypothysis on what makes 7 month old O-rings start to leak?

 

[icanfixall]

They were of poor quality.. Get in touch with typ4 on this forum. He sells the viton o-rings and they flat out work their ass's off and wont leak... He also sells complete return line kits with the quality non viton o-rings. Install any o-ring with some lube so they wont get cut from the plastic.

 

[foresterdj]

Thanks, I was just searching "viton" to find who had them, I knew someone did, and there was the answer. Is this the best site ever!?

 

[6.9poweredscout]

don't know if you hit mud or dirt but i had some crud cut mine that seeped in around the caps.

-Jon

 

[riotwarrior]

.....Is this the best site ever!?

YES IT IS!​

 

[foresterdj]

So, last week put in some viton o-rings in all return line caps and installed two Interstate Mega tron 65 batteries (850 CCA each), cleaned battery cables and truck started good 3 times (after a bit of cranking the first time) and return lines seemed dry.

Then Thursday morning another air intrusion and multiple crank cycles to get fueled up. This with a new mechanical lift pump having been installed late last summer.

Symptoms:
much crankling and no fire. (not the start- run 3 seconds- and die scenario some describe, just nothing, and truck has all new beru glow plugs late last summer also)
Check schrader valve and fuel coming in spurts
once air out, it fired up and ran smooth
return lines still seem dry.

Plans for investigation this weekend:
After sitting since Thursday, will pull fuel filter first thing, to see if it is full, which I am assuming it will not be. (see comments below)

will check hardline into filter, where I replaced olive when I did fuel pump, to see if it is loose

will pull and check and re-attach bottom of hard line at the new (but now suspect) fuel lift pump, since it was showing a drop of fuel at fitting

will check check valve where fuel line exits filter

will look at fuel heated connection, but do not recall ever seeing any fuel leak there, and it is right on top where it is easily seen

I guess there is an olive at the return line manifold near the rear drivers side of the engine, I would check it, but may wait until I have one to replace it.

It seems to me (from reading on this site until my eyes were shot last night) that for a significant fuel volume to have leaked out of the filter that multiple crank cycles are needed to restore it, followed by truck running fine and smooth and strong once this happens, that either the check valve exiting filter toward IP, OR bad check valve in lift pump, coupled with some air leak to break the vacuum must be happening to allow fuel to leak back to tanks (since no fuel is seen on the ground).

Comments or alternate suggestions welcome.

 

[ocnorb]

Check schrader valve and fuel coming in spurts




Comments or alternate suggestions welcome.

Sounds like you are on the right track.

I know some think its a cop-out, but the carrier electric pump was the best add on I have put on this truck. Yeah, it masks some of these small air intrusions issues, but it also makes it much more dependable. Also when the leak gets big enough to leak fuel it will be easy to find.

The first time I fired up my carrier pump I could literally see sections of fuel line 'foaming' up and knew just what to go after.

 

[yARIC008]

I finally got my problems fixed after a year or two. Here is a list of where all my leaks were

- Return lines

- The hard line going from the fuel filter to the injection pump. The line wouldn't seat properly for some reason and was always loose, so I pulled it off and made a little homemade o-ring for it and put it back on, doesn't leak anymore.

- Bottom of my fuel filter was leaking, where the water separator was so got a one piece napa filter without the separator bottom part.

- Check valve on the top of the fuel filter assembly. I just put a manual ball valve on this line and keep it closed most of the time now.

Fixed all those over several months and now finally my truck can sit for over a month and fire up instantly. I don't drive it a lot anymore because I have a company car now.

 

[foresterdj]

ARGGG - not much headway today.

1. loosened fuel filter and fuel started coming out, out the rear at least, I was parked facing up hill, but seeming to be full none-the-less, so I retighten without removing it completely. Try a few cranks - no go.

2. drink some coffee, check hardline into filter, it seemed a little loose so I tightened about 1/2 turn. Tried a few cranks - no go.

3. drink some coffee, check the check valve where return line exits filter head. Cannot see though it, blow through it in the "out" direction fine, try blowing through the "in" direction and no air moves, so I assume the check valve is fine and replace it. Tried a few cranks - no go. Seems to not be turning over as fast as two new batteries should spin it (they did spin it faster on Thursday). I figure I must be drawing the batteries down from all the cranking Thursday and so far today.

4. drink some coffee, drag the battery charger/200 amp jump start unit out and hook it up. Try a few cranks, is some faster and almost seems like it wants to fire, but not quite. Thinking it'll go the next time. switch starting unit over to battery charge mode.

5. drink some coffee, look at fuel heater connection and see no sign of leaks. BUT THEN, what is this, smoke wafting up from glow plug regulator and from the multi-prong plug on passenger fender. Look quick to see if I had left key on - no, keys were on the seat. smoke getting worse, quick disconnect the batteries, use last of coffee to put out the smoke (o.k., not the smartest move, but seemed like the thing to do at the time.)

6. Use ATV to pull truck to shop where I can work on it better. Since the glow plug power wires had melted themselves nearly out of the plug in, in pop them out, unplug body of plug and other connections seem unaffected. So I head to town for a new glow plug regulator and either a more robust plug-in for the two power wires, or, (and this is what I got), a marine battery switch.

7. Install new regulator, wire up switch and mount to flat spot on inner fender. Do a test light test of glow plugs and they all light the light. Call it quits for the day. Will get back at it tommorrow.

So basically, no progress other than fixing what broke today. Like I said, ARGGG.

 

[Brad S.]

foresterdj,
Welcome to the "pull your hair out, trying to fix fuel leaks club".
Theres quite a few threads on how some people have completely changed the old stock setup.
I ended up using a metal braided line, (faucet hose) from the IP to the filter head. Then getting rid of the stock lines from the filter head down to the lift pump.
Hope it goes ok for you.

 

[Optikalillushun]

also a few more trouble areas. fuel line olives from filter head out to IP and WAY in the back on the driver side is another olive (thanks to icanfixall for pointing this out).

*side note* on my truck, while fighting air intrustion i found the hard line going to the IP was loose, as well as that last olive in the driver bank to the back.

have u tried the clear hose trick to see if u are drawing air in from the return lines? consider urself lucky the fuel heater isnt leaking. might wanna repair that before it does leak (because i am sure it will).

before ur next attempt at starting, hook up a DVOM to the battery and see the volatage after each round of cranking. the batteries shouldnt die out that quick (from what u described). i killed my starter by cranking like u, thought it was my batteries (part of the fault).

 

[foresterdj]

More precisely where is the olive at the far rear of the engine. While laying up there installing the new GP regulator I was looking. My left and right return lines connect by hose and clamp to a 3 way connection, the third side also being hose and clamp and runs down as far as I could see toward the frame.

 

[Optikalillushun]

thats it!

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[RLDSL]

Some of the newer ones don't have that setup on the return. They have a brass nipple junction block bolted to the manifold at the rear and the return from the filter head and pump all join in series with the injector return line, but the line back aft of the block can get pretty ragged if it's been disturbed and be a major potential air intrusion point

 

[yARIC008]

Have you considered using a manual glow plug switch? When trying to get fuel primed into everything while cranking the engine you don't want the plug to be firing up every time and running your bats down as happened to you.

Usually when my fuel filter would be empty it would take about 15 seconds of cranking to re-prime it and by that time the cylinders had created enough heat to fire off without glow plugs anyways.

It also makes for a good theft deterrent. If someone jumps in your truck and doesn't know about how to operate the switch and starts cranking away for 15 seconds on a loud ass diesel trying they're probably going to think twice about it.