Fuel problem has everyone around here stumped.. Please Help!

mr_smith

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Update: We pressurized the fuel tank and had no leaks. We then put air to the schroeder valve and heard a POP.. It sounded like the return line running from the top of the fuel filter housing popped off, but it didnt. It almost seems like something was clogged in the return line..

I drove it 2 miles, only one time did it feel like it was losing power, other than that it seemed ok.

We will see what happens when I send her off to work tomorrow..
 

gandalf

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Update: We pressurized the fuel tank and had no leaks. We then put air to the schroeder valve and heard a POP.. It sounded like the return line running from the top of the fuel filter housing popped off, but it didnt. It almost seems like something was clogged in the return line..

I drove it 2 miles, only one time did it feel like it was losing power, other than that it seemed ok.

We will see what happens when I send her off to work tomorrow..


Let's be sure we understand what you did. You pressurized the fuel filter head by putting air IN through the scraeder valve? I'm not so sure that's a good thing. Equally, I'm not sure it's a bad thing, though I tend more in that direction. The purpose of the scraeder valve is to bleed air OUT of the filter head, not to introduce air into it. If you did, in fact, dislodge some crud inside which was causing a blockage then 1) it's still in there and may/will cause further problems, and 2) that filter head needs a thorough cleaning. NOW, check your fuel system, be sure you didn't blow any hoses loose.

Keep us all posted on your progress.
 

icanfixall

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If the schrader valve was plugged upany trash in that area will now be caught by the filter media. That side of the filter head is actually the dirty unfiltered fuel from the tanks. Me calling it dirty fuel is because its not been thru the engine fuel filter yet. Good luck and I hope you found the issue.
 

mr_smith

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Yes, I did in fact push air into the schrader valve, something somewhere loosened up.

The fuel was shooting out of the valve stronger than I have ever seen..

I am discouraged that I felt it lose power once, but I am hoping whatever I did fixed it.

I will let you guys know tomorrow when I send her out to work..

Thank you all very much for helping, I am on quite a few various forums and I can tell this will be a helpful one!
 

Brad S.

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I had a similar problem with the olive seals, so I got rid of them.
Found a fitting that threaded into the stock fuel pump and 1/4 NPT fitting on the "enter" side of the fuel filter, piece of rubber fuel hose between, good to go.(running a electric fuel pump now)
The brass fitting on the IP has a 3/8 compression fitting, and the fitting on the "exit" side of the filter I think is also a 3/8 compression, I took out my stock fuel line and replaced it with
a water facet line, stainless steel, 3/8 compression nut on both ends.
The faucet line doesn't last forever but is easy to find.
Here's a couple pics.
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cr430c

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May be a stupid question and already asked but how much fuel is in the tank? If its low that could be your problem. I racked my brain trying to figure out what was going on. Turned out switched the tank and like magic.
 

mr_smith

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-cuss:frustrate-cuss

Drove to the job today 3 miles and it was starting to act up a little but it made it

My guys just went to the dump (6 miles) and then I got a call from them saying they were broke down at burger king..
They cant get it more than a few blocks. They also say there is not fuel at the schroder valve

I seriously don't understand what this could be

It seems like it gets worse when its hot

It drives fine for a couple miles and then it just starts losing power and quits
 

bigpanda16

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Sometimes in my experience when the injector pump has seen hell and has seen fine sediment (from waste veg oil, my first idi-t) and a clogged filter and been able to,run hot due to lack of fuel to cool it: my truck would cut off abruptly as off air suddenly entered the lines and would be a ***** to crank back up(typical worn inj pump symptoms). I also had a Holley blue and broken pickups in tank, when I would pump ulsd at 3/8 tank, the air would kill my motor from the fuel foaming. My truck would die just as suddenly before I got a Midwest fuel injection pump rebuilt
 

riotwarrior

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-cuss:frustrate-cuss

Drove to the job today 3 miles and it was starting to act up a little but it made it

My guys just went to the dump (6 miles) and then I got a call from them saying they were broke down at burger king..
They cant get it more than a few blocks. They also say there is not fuel at the schroder valve

I seriously don't understand what this could be

It seems like it gets worse when its hot

It drives fine for a couple miles and then it just starts losing power and quits

Does your fuel tank have a CLOGGED vent? Or a fully sealed cap? If it's not venting to atmosphere it may be causing your problem...Just a thought..

Other than that. NEW IP and injectors return lines and O rings and Olives and all new rubber fuel lines replacing the current ones and a new Lift pump...that's about it that I can think of...

Or what every you blew out of shrader valve is back in place clogging ***** again!

JM2CW

Al
 

mr_smith

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So are you guys saying the IP might be getting hot and quitting? If so, how would that explain the air in the system when it quits?

When it breaks down, if you wait 15 minutes and start cranking, you get fuel back to the schrader valve..

I believe I have eliminated everything from the fuel tank to the lift pump..

Is running for a short time (or much better when cold) a symptom of the IP being bad? If so, how would that relate to air being in the system when it dies?

Thank you guys so much for your continued assistance!
 

GOOSE

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That piece of hose haunts me and the Dog Catcher, a good preventative maintenance point for everyone's truck. You could have a pin hole in the hard line as well. Try running a rubber hose from the lift pump to a portable tank. If the problem goes away, its pre lift pump. If it persists, its in the engine bay. Make sure the trucks tank has room for the return fuel when doing this.

Good luck with the tree business and keep us posted.
 

Agnem

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A couple of thoughts here. First, pressurizing the fuel system with air. Not sure where your "pop" came from. Hopefully not the diaphragm in your new lift pump. Keep an eye on your engine oil. Non-fuel rated rubber hose is a really bad idea. Or, a great way to ruin your IP. Your choice. Why do you keep replacing parts when you don't know if they are bad? A simple gauge to measure fuel pressure would be a great addition to your rig, and really help solve your problem. You need to eliminate the guess work, and a gauge is going to be the only thing that will help you over the long term.
 

mr_smith

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I agree I definitely need a gauge.

Since this problem happened, the only thing I replaced was the lift pump, twice because I initially thought I may have gotten a bad one.

I cannot figure out what the problem is because there is always a reason it doesn't make sense.

If its the IP, why would the system be full of air and why would it run for short periods?
If there is a air leak somewhere, why does it run better when cold and how does it have great fuel pressure when we first start it, hot or cold?

I know I need to overhaul the fuel system, and I need to do it right. Problem is, with my chipper being down last week, and the truck this week, I need to get my ass out to work so I can afford all this stuff, I don't plan on buying cheap either.


Another thing worth mentioning is that when it starts wanting to quit, if you play with the accelerator, it will "catch" and run ok for a little bit longer. Also when its getting ready to quit, a little while before it cuts out, the truck gets really quiet.

Thanks!
 

Ocelotl

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It's too hot to work outside, so here's some thoughts. Most of them have been mentioned above.

-I'd make sure I didn't blow up the diaphragm in the lift pump. Replace if lift pump is toast.
-I'd check for diesel in oil due to above. Change oil and filter if contaminated with diesel.
-Rig a hose from a jug with clean diesel to the lift pump to start truck independently from the tanks/tank selector valve and from the lines and hoses before the pump. If truck runs great all of a sudden, the problem is before the lift pump. If it runs the same, the problem is after the pump. This does not mean everything is hunky-dory on the other end, it just points in the direction I would focus on.

-If truck runs the same with clean diesel from a jug, I'd remove the filter head and clean it, blow its passages with compressed air when it's off the truck, then install a new filter (unless I know for darned sure it's clean and good, but I'd probably change it anyway and save that one for a spare). I'd then replace the olive on the line from the lift pump to the filter head, the olives on the line from the filter head to the injection pump--there's two of them, one at each end. I'd then redo the return lines with new fuel hose and o-rings with a kit from one of the trusted vendors here. Or if I needed it now I'd get hose and viton o-rings locally (they're No. 111, I believe) and hope that the plastic caps themselves are not shot. After bleeding the air from the system, I'd start the truck and see how it goes. If the truck keeps on dying and doesn't want to start again right away when hot, I'd first slowly pour a quart or two of water over the pump as soon as it dies, especially around the rear of the pump, where the lines to the injectors are and see if it starts. If it does, this is a sure sign of a pump going bad. I would then check all the items below just to make sure.

-If truck runs better, I'd still do the above because I don't know when the last time it was done, but I'd do it later. I'd first make sure I don't have the "shower head" problem where it falls off in the tank and I'd make sure there's no debris/algae in the fuel that could be plugging up the sending unit or filter, and check the sending unit in general while I'm at it. Then I'd check the lines from the tank for leaks and replace any rubber sections with the proper hose, check for leaks at the fuel selector valve, and replace all rubber lines all the way to the lift pump as well as check for corroded/leaking along the metal parts of the fuel line. I'd do the same with the return line.

If after doing all of the above (which sounds more complicated than it really is and beats getting stranded all over the place) I'm still having problems, I'd start thinking about a quality injection pump replacement. Having been burned with an iffy pump my mechanic got for me, I'd only go with the vendors often recommended here. I'd also install new injectors from said vendors, or at least have them tested. Before doing this, however, I'd do a compression test, no sense throwing good money after bad if the compression is low (which, along with a bad pump and air intrusion was my problem to begin with). After installing the good injection pump and injectors, I'd time it dynamically, that is, with a timing tool and not just by ear or by just lining up the marks. I'd also check the glow plug system and make sure it's up to *****.

This is not necessarily what I did when my truck had issues, mind you, just the way I would go about it now. When I had my issues it got to the point when I just had to take a step back and follow all the good advice given here, step by step and in order, instead of chasing my own tail because things didn't make sense. I'm hope others will correct me or add to my comments above.

YMMV, JM2CW, HTH and so forth.
 

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