GV over/underdrive on a 4x4?

79jasper

Chickenhawk
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Posts
17,367
Reaction score
1,930
Location
Collinsville, Oklahoma
Some reason my post didn't go through earlier.
Being in 4 wheel drive will put you in a ditch faster than 2 wheel drive.

Sent from my SM-T537R4 using Tapatalk
 

dunk

Dunce
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Posts
991
Reaction score
4
Location
NJ
I don't think anyone makes an add on overdrive that you can use in 4x4 operation.

There is one that fits in front of the transmission [sorry, can't think of the name] but I recall they are rare as hens teeth.

The one I know of that goes in front of trans is Ranger. They make them in overdrive and underdrive. You can buy them new from a few places, Advance Adaptors sells them with whatever you need to fit a few different setups.

You must be registered for see images


Doesn't work with a one piece main case and bell though so no ZF5, unless you find one of them nifty South American iron case ZF5 with separate bell. Might work with a NV4500 or similar to get you a double overdrive, though not listed on the AA site maybe someone has figured a way to run one with a common light truck overdrive trans. Would probably fit one of those overdrive toploaders or an SROD, but those aren't exactly suitable for a working truck.

Could also do a Brownie or similar behind a 2wd ZF5 and run a divorced 205. Driveline would be getting pretty long though but probably fine on a a SC or CC truck. The older trucks had pretty long front shafts.

Would be a hoot to run a Ranger+NP435+203/205 doubler twin sticked into a Brownie. Six shifters would probably eliminate any requests to borrow the truck. :rotflmao
 

The Warden

MiB Impersonator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Posts
7,356
Reaction score
35
Location
Fog Bless Pacifica (CA)
I don't think anyone makes an add on overdrive that you can use in 4x4 operation.

Since 4x4 can't be used on hard surface anyway, I can't see an advantage to having "4x4 overdrive". Down the road at highway speed, having overdrive to lower engine RPMs makes sense, and fuel mileage.
U.S. Gear/Doug Nash overdrive units go between the transmission and the transfer case on a 4x4 application, so you can use it in 4H or 4L if you wanted to.

I disagree about not having any advantage to splitting gears in 4x4. You may not want 5th Over (double-OD) in 4x4, but you can split the other four gears also...there may be an advantage to having a 2nd or 3rd Over option.

With that having been said, U.S. Gear no longer manufactures nor supports their units, so if you can get your hands on one, you have to get creative. There are a few threads on the subject, for anyone who's interested...

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?65234-US-Gear-Dual-Range-Doug-Nash-Info
 

79jasper

Chickenhawk
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Posts
17,367
Reaction score
1,930
Location
Collinsville, Oklahoma
The one I know of that goes in front of trans is Ranger. They make them in overdrive and underdrive. You can buy them new from a few places, Advance Adaptors sells them with whatever you need to fit a few different setups.

Doesn't work with a one piece main case and bell though so no ZF5, unless you find one of them nifty South American iron case ZF5 with separate bell. Might work with a NV4500 or similar to get you a double overdrive, though not listed on the AA site maybe someone has figured a way to run one with a common light truck overdrive trans. Would probably fit one of those overdrive toploaders or an SROD, but those aren't exactly suitable for a working truck.

Could also do a Brownie or similar behind a 2wd ZF5 and run a divorced 205. Driveline would be getting pretty long though but probably fine on a a SC or CC truck. The older trucks had pretty long front shafts.

Would be a hoot to run a Ranger+NP435+203/205 doubler twin sticked into a Brownie. Six shifters would probably eliminate any requests to borrow the truck. :rotflmao

If going that route of having to get a removable bell housing, I definitely wouldn't get a ZF.
Gotta say of the trucks I've driven (well pickups anyways) my favorite standard trans was the sm465 in my 79 Chevy. A real truck trans, just no overdrive.

Sent from my SM-T537R4 using Tapatalk
 

LCAM-01XA

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Posts
5,932
Reaction score
12
Location
my very own hell
and while you can get a Dana 50 truck close to 2WD height, Dana 60 trucks sit considerably taller because the axle won't clear other components otherwise
FWIW, a D60 can yield just as low ride height as a D50. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves (FORDF250HDXLT, I'm looking at you) LOL

I wonder if a person could use a this style of gear vendors between the trans and transfercase.
Being used in a motorhome application, it's very possible this particular unit is actually of the underdrive. Motorhomes often have the issue of too much weight and not enough lower gear to get it moving. GV themselves state as much on their website, or at least used to. Of course it all depends on how said motorhome axle is geared, so best check the serial # somehow (idk how) before bidding.

this was my thoughts. if i went 4x4 i would want to be able to use the GV in 4x4. otherwise it feels redundant having a gv and towing without it during poor weather conditions. Guess i just wanna have my cake and eat it too.
No, you're absolutely right. Honestly, I don't think any auxiliary transmission that cannot split all gears in the main box and on top of that cannot be used in 4x4 mode is worth what they want for that thing. There are better ways, yeah they take some fab work but there won't be any worries about blowing up the thing either... Besides, who here doesn't like to play with a torch? LOL

I don't think anyone makes an add on overdrive that you can use in 4x4 operation.
Since 4x4 can't be used on hard surface anyway, I can't see an advantage to having "4x4 overdrive". Down the road at highway speed, having overdrive to lower engine RPMs makes sense, and fuel mileage.
Directly from GV's website: "Fact is, when you are in 4X4 there is very little desire to use GearSplitting and overdrive unless you are racing (and we do make the in-between kit for that purpose)"

So apparently attempting to get a heavy trailer up a grade on a lousy surface is racing... Typical scenario would be towing a big camper in bad winter conditions - you want the 4x4 for traction, and you also want to make the smallest possible gear jumps so you don't lose whatever little traction you have. On the dry side of things, sometimes you want both axles turning just so you can share the load and not risk blowing the rear U-joints (especially the 1330s), and at the same time you really wanna be able to split the gears cause especially the 1-2 on a wide-ratio main box pulling uphill can drop you right into idle territory which can stall you right then and there.

Looks like a standard Ford round transfer case bolt pattern on both ends? If so that would be pretty slick.
Yes, this most certainly appears to be the type that goes between the transmission and the transfer case, because it most likely came out of a motorhome with a driveline brake (same deal as with F-Superduty trucks and their transmissions that can accept a transfer case in place of the driveline brake). Unfortunately according to GV's website there is no such animal in production anymore. Maybe they realized the error of their ways, in the sense that they can market the same thing now as a "racing-only" setup and ask premium for it... Which given their assholy policy of adapter exchanges wouldn't surprise me one bit.

If going that route of having to get a removable bell housing, I definitely wouldn't get a ZF.
Gotta say of the trucks I've driven (well pickups anyways) my favorite standard trans was the sm465 in my 79 Chevy. A real truck trans, just no overdrive.
NP435 > SM465, but yes. Btw your comment about 4x4 putting you in the ditch faster than 2wd is bull, and you know it LOL
 

The Warden

MiB Impersonator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Posts
7,356
Reaction score
35
Location
Fog Bless Pacifica (CA)
FWIW, a D60 can yield just as low ride height as a D50. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves (FORDF250HDXLT, I'm looking at you) LOL
I just re-read FORDF250HDXLT's signature, and it looks like his truck's an F-250 with a DRW conversion. Has he said whether or not he did a Dana 60 swap?

In any event, how do you lower the front end of a truck with a Dana 60 without having issues with crossmember clearance?
 

79jasper

Chickenhawk
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Posts
17,367
Reaction score
1,930
Location
Collinsville, Oklahoma
NP435 > SM465, but yes. Btw your comment about 4x4 putting you in the ditch faster than 2wd is bull, and you know it LOL

It will.
Lose traction on all for corners vs just the rear, which is losing control?
4x4 less chance of losing traction in the first place? Yes, but once it starts slipping, you're sol.
Can't say I've had to lock mine in since two or three winters ago, and that was solid ice trying to get into the driveway. It raises about 2 or 3 feet in about 8 feet, off the main street. So making a turn + grade + open diff + one hub not locking = no go. Lol

I mean i guess it does come down to experience, but i see way more 4x4/awd vehicles in the ditch than 2wd/running unlocked.

Haven't driven a NP435, but I'd bet it's just ford's version.

Sent from my SM-T537R4 using Tapatalk
 

LCAM-01XA

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Posts
5,932
Reaction score
12
Location
my very own hell
I just re-read FORDF250HDXLT's signature, and it looks like his truck's an F-250 with a DRW conversion. Has he said whether or not he did a Dana 60 swap?

In any event, how do you lower the front end of a truck with a Dana 60 without having issues with crossmember clearance?

He's running the D50, which is not a bad axle by no means (I actually do like them), but I clearly remember him justifying not going to a D60 with the extra ride height that it would supposedly add... Then I look at our truck, yeah, it sits exactly as tall as a factory F250HD. How, well, springs - whether you put factory gasoline springs under the diesel, or have something custom made, she can ride lower. Can't go too low tho, F250HD ride height is about as low as you can get away with. There is adequate clearances all around there (would be even more for normal trucks that don't have their axle slid forward a bit), and like 3-4" of up travel. Which may seem low just based on the number, but realistically we've never bottomed ours out (that we're aware of at least), and she's pushing 5k lbs on the steers when fully dressed.

It will.
Lose traction on all for corners vs just the rear, which is losing control?
4x4 less chance of losing traction in the first place? Yes, but once it starts slipping, you're sol.
Can't say I've had to lock mine in since two or three winters ago, and that was solid ice trying to get into the driveway. It raises about 2 or 3 feet in about 8 feet, off the main street. So making a turn + grade + open diff + one hub not locking = no go. Lol

I mean i guess it does come down to experience, but i see way more 4x4/awd vehicles in the ditch than 2wd/running unlocked.
If you mean loss of traction due to too much throttle input then yes, 4x4 will get you in trouble on all 4 corners indeed. But then again, if you're careful and don't feed her too much fuel she won't try to do anything stupid on you. I think your observation of high number of "ditched" 4x4/awd vehicles is mostly due to driver overconfidence and thus overdriving the road conditions - if you got a 2wd you tend to be real careful cause you know how easy she gets stuck, with both axles powered many people get the impression they're now unstoppable. Well I guess on ice they are indeed unstoppable, as in once they're sliding there ain't much stopping them but the ditch LOL
 

jay22day

Dunce
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Posts
371
Reaction score
0
Location
'merca
If you mean loss of traction due to too much throttle input then yes, 4x4 will get you in trouble on all 4 corners indeed. But then again, if you're careful and don't feed her too much fuel she won't try to do anything stupid on you. I think your observation of high number of "ditched" 4x4/awd vehicles is mostly due to driver overconfidence and thus overdriving the road conditions - if you got a 2wd you tend to be real careful cause you know how easy she gets stuck, with both axles powered many people get the impression they're now unstoppable. Well I guess on ice they are indeed unstoppable, as in once they're sliding there ain't much stopping them but the ditch LOL

Agreed!!! "overconfidence" is the best way to describe the 4x4 guys in the ditch hahahaha

its usually woman driving the 4x4's you see in the ditch- "ohhh if i can accelerate this fast this easy i can surely stop and steer just as fast just as easy"



The replies and contributions to this thread are unbelievable impressive and informative!!


Thank you to all those that have contributed thus far
 

LCAM-01XA

Full Access Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Posts
5,932
Reaction score
12
Location
my very own hell
its usually woman driving the 4x4's you see in the ditch- "ohhh if i can accelerate this fast this easy i can surely stop and steer just as fast just as easy"
Eh, idk, seems to me it's an even split of males and females. Stupidity knows no gender, I've seen plenty of good ole redneck boys do some stuff they should have known (and probably do know) better than to try... Ofc it's hard to judge a ditched person's gender when you blow past them at 50+ mph... in a blizzard... at night... with the 4x4 engaged :D
 

Black dawg

Registered User
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
4,004
Reaction score
708
Location
sw mt
this was my thoughts. if i went 4x4 i would want to be able to use the GV in 4x4. otherwise it feels redundant having a gv and towing without it during poor weather conditions. Guess i just wanna have my cake and eat it too.

After years of collecting parts, I have a GV overdrive in one truck, and a us gear/dne2 (between trans and t case) in the other. Both are 4x4 and used in 4x regularly. I got the gv first, and was quite happy with it, until I got the us gear put in the crew cab. It really sucks not being able to use the gv for splitting gears in 4x4, and yes there are times it would be nice to use 4x4 and the gv for overdrive. The us gear is very cool (although noisy) and gets used to split gears and overdrive in 4x4, even low range. You dont realize how far the gear splits in a factory manual trans are until you are able to split them.
 

Black dawg

Registered User
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
4,004
Reaction score
708
Location
sw mt
Agreed!!! "overconfidence" is the best way to describe the 4x4 guys in the ditch hahahaha

its usually woman driving the 4x4's you see in the ditch- "ohhh if i can accelerate this fast this easy i can surely stop and steer just as fast just as easy"

The over confidence thing does happen, but it is usually just stupidity.
 

jay22day

Dunce
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Posts
371
Reaction score
0
Location
'merca
After years of collecting parts, I have a GV overdrive in one truck, and a us gear/dne2 (between trans and t case) in the other. Both are 4x4 and used in 4x regularly. I got the gv first, and was quite happy with it, until I got the us gear put in the crew cab. It really sucks not being able to use the gv for splitting gears in 4x4, and yes there are times it would be nice to use 4x4 and the gv for overdrive. The us gear is very cool (although noisy) and gets used to split gears and overdrive in 4x4, even low range. You dont realize how far the gear splits in a factory manual trans are until you are able to split them.

the only downside ive heard is that w/ the GV if it fails u can usually continue to drive it, if the other aux trans' fail your stuck.
 

Black dawg

Registered User
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
4,004
Reaction score
708
Location
sw mt
the only downside ive heard is that w/ the GV if it fails u can usually continue to drive it, if the other aux trans' fail your stuck.

not always true about the gv. And like the gv, the electronics are the weakest part of the us gear. They can cause a partial shift, leaving you stuck between OD and direct, but that is the only way I have seen a us gear fail.

after having both, the GV is an overhyped tinker toy, just too many limitations. Not saying that I will remove it from my truck without having something to replace it with though.
 

Black dawg

Registered User
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
4,004
Reaction score
708
Location
sw mt
I guess the point of my posts , was that it would be worth waiting to find a us gear, but any OD is better than none.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
91,376
Posts
1,131,386
Members
24,178
Latest member
ntjapkes
Top