Gear swap in 10.25 Sterling Axle

[junk]

I've looked and haven't been able to find any specific threads regarding gear swaps. I've never played with gears in a reared before. I'm not doing it anytime soon. This thread will be here to basically collect data for now and document my experiences once I get into it.

I'm sick of the 3.55 gears in my 89 crewcab for towing and will be swapping in a set of 4.10's out of an 88 rear axle. I've had a 4.10 rear end with locker sitting in the trees for years. Like 15. So I'm grabbing the gears and carrier from the housing and swapping them in. In retrospect I could have cleaned up that axle for the crewcab rebuild, but I've already got my axle cleaned and painted. I've also got a set of 4.10 gears that came out of my Dana 60 15 years ago to reinstall, but those will probably be another thread we'll see how it goes.

So what I'm reading is to start out by installing the gears and shims just as they came out of the other axle. Then check pattern and go from there. I'm hoping this isn't a complete start from the beginning with shimming, but if it goes that way I'll get it done. I've got or have access to a great selection of tools so I'm not worried about that. I do need to grab a dial style in-lb torque wrench though.

Parts I need
Prussian blue Gear marking - Got some coming
Crush sleeve eliminator - Heard this is the same one as in a 9"? Is that right
Shims - I may wait to order these until I get an initial read on the gears
Pinion nut

So how hard is this? My biggest concern at this time is getting the pinion preload set right. But with a crush sleeve eliminator that seems easier. I know Iv'e read something from Typ4 on this, but can't find the post.

Heres the gears and carrier. Don't worry the little bit of surface rust is only on the outside of the carrier. Gears and bearings look new.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[typ4]

I use the ratech pinion shim kit, I have one in my hand, do you have a lathe, the spacer needs to be chamfered on the inside where it hits the pinion step or it will ride high and not be correct. I have done a bunch of sterlings and the shim under the pinion cone has been the same on all of them. slap it in and check pattern, then you can put in the eliminator kit if pattern looks good. Check used gears on coast side, easier for initial setup.

I can mod this sleeve and get it to you if you dont have a lathe. Cost + shipping plus price of a VERY dark beer. 20 0z. lol

On a side note if you had the cam those 355 gears wouldnt bother you so much

 

[riotwarrior]

Looks like an open carrier to me not a locker.

Why pull gears n reset them why not swap whole axle assemblies.

Do a search for CSEK that should bring up some threads and a good one LCAM was really working to help a fella out with. Dont forget powersmoke and his book...least think its him

Lots of help here and you are on the rit track.

Btw csek is crush slee e eleimnator kit

 

[typ4]

Al, its a LS diff, look at the right side above swaybar. And for me ,swapping gears is way easier and faster. but ive done hundreds.

 

[junk]

Russ I do have a lathe and access to big lathes at work. So turning that shouldn't be a problem. Is that the Ratech 4105 shim kit? They list it for a 10.25 so seems crazy it needs lathe work still. Good to know though. I'll get one coming.

Any particular gear charts you like to reference for pattern? I found an install sheet by Yukon gear. It seemed to have some good charts in it for pattern and just general install procedures. It's written for many different housings though.

You know I also debated about doing a cam and inter cooler to get more ponies so the 3.55's would be sufficient, but in the end the 4.10's won out. I also debated going 3.73's but I had the 4.10's and the 3.73's didn't seem like a big enough jump. Now I did make a deal tonight on a 460 ZF-5 so I'll be pulling the t-19 for a 5 speed in the future. I'll Typ4 the transmission and slap it in. With my Us Gear overdrive I'll have double Overdrive for cruising empty.

Al - I thought long and hard about swapping housings, but this ones all painted up and the brakes and lines are all fresh. It would take me 3-4 night to get the other housing cleaned up and the rusted up brakes broke loose to even get it apart. So in the long run I figured this would be "simpler" and I'd learn a new skill. Around here finding people who can setup rearends is few and far between. The shop I normally use is 3 hours away.

Thanks guys! I'm sure I'll have lots more comments as I get further into this.

Thanks-Jeremy

 

[riotwarrior]

Al, its a LS diff, look at the right side above swaybar. And for me ,swapping gears is way easier and faster. but ive done hundreds.

Sorry not seeing it Russ...but I am on phone...image isnt that good.

 

[junk]

You must be registered for see images attach

Found this on Pirate. Tapered carrier is open. Cylindrical carrier is a locker. There's clutches and crap under the end opposite the ring gear.

 

[dunk]

One thing I'll mention is being an '88 those are likely not long pinion gears. Having had so many issues with loose short pinions I wouldn't waste the time and money doing short pinion gears in anything I was swapping. FWIW going to solid spacers instead of crush sleeve can help. Worth it for a quick fix but not gambling the time for a gear swap IMO.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

One thing I'll mention is being an '88 those are likely not long pinion gears. Having had so many issues with loose short pinions I wouldn't waste the time and money doing short pinion gears in anything I was swapping. FWIW going to solid spacers instead of crush sleeve can help. Worth it for a quick fix but not gambling the time for a gear swap IMO.

Eh, it may be a problem, but it may very well not be one. I can gut a Sterling axle in 15 min with just hand tools, less then an hour to put her back together with gears + carrier swap and spacer kit install and obviously pattern check. Don't even have to lift the wheels off the ground... IMHO it's well worth it for the OP to give it a shot with the parts he's got. Especially if the 4.10 axle is a low-mileage one. Obviously start with teardown of the donor axle, this way if something ain't quite right there he can just keep driving the 3.55s that's already in the truck and not have it inop for a while.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Russ I do have a lathe and access to big lathes at work. So turning that shouldn't be a problem. Is that the Ratech 4105 shim kit? They list it for a 10.25 so seems crazy it needs lathe work still. Good to know though. I'll get one coming.

Any particular gear charts you like to reference for pattern? I found an install sheet by Yukon gear. It seemed to have some good charts in it for pattern and just general install procedures. It's written for many different housings though.

The thing with the spacer is that the pinion has a small radius where the section of the shaft the spacer will ride around transitions into a step for the spacer to bottom against. You'll see what's going on when you get your spacer kit and try sliding the spacer onto the pinion, if the spacer has sharp right angle between its face and its bore on both ends then said edge will likely jam into the pinion shaft's radius and not allow the spacer to seat properly with its face firmly against the pinion's step. Since you said you have a lathe I would assume you're pretty good with figuring out tolerances and dimensions and all that, therefore I think the moment you see both parts in your hands you'll know exactly what the problem is (if any) and how to fix it

About gears setup, well gears are gears regardless of what housing they are in, so they kinda all set up the same way. The Yukon sheet, if it's the same one I'm thinking of those same pictures are also in PwrSmoker's book, which he wrote together with Randy from Randy's R&P, it's good stuff.

But yeah, like was already said by others, just put the thing together and check it for backlash and pattern. From what I've seen 9 times out of 10 if you're using factory Ford gears and diffs and just switching them from one axle to another everything comes out perfect if you keep the pinion shim with its respective pinion and the carrier bearings preload shims with their respective axle (not the carrier). Dana axles on the other hand...

Another quick upgrade, while you got things apart - Dana 60 & 70 ring gear bolts have teeth machined into their heads, replace the Sterling ring gear bolts with them and add some red loctite and you're pretty much guaranteed to never see them back out. Which the Sterling bolts apparently do in some situations.

Red locktite on the bolts that hold the axle shafts to wheel hubs as well. If that means wirewheeling the bolts and degreasing and air blowing the holes they thread in so be it. This is not optional, we've have members experience them getting loose. Torque to specs with red loctite, should be good to go for ages to come.

 

[riotwarrior]

The thing with the spacer is that the pinion has a small radius where the section of the shaft the spacer will ride around transitions into a step for the spacer to bottom against. You'll see what's going on when you get your spacer kit and try sliding the spacer onto the pinion, if the spacer has sharp right angle between its face and its bore on both ends then said edge will likely jam into the pinion shaft's radius and not allow the spacer to seat properly with its face firmly against the pinion's step. Since you said you have a lathe I would assume you're pretty good with figuring out tolerances and dimensions and all that, therefore I think the moment you see both parts in your hands you'll know exactly what the problem is (if any) and how to fix it

About gears setup, well gears are gears regardless of what housing they are in, so they kinda all set up the same way. The Yukon sheet, if it's the same one I'm thinking of those same pictures are also in PwrSmoker's book, which he wrote together with Randy from Randy's R&P, it's good stuff.

But yeah, like was already said by others, just put the thing together and check it for backlash and pattern. From what I've seen 9 times out of 10 if you're using factory Ford gears and diffs and just switching them from one axle to another everything comes out perfect if you keep the pinion shim with its respective pinion and the carrier bearings preload shims with their respective axle (not the carrier). Dana axles on the other hand...

Another quick upgrade, while you got things apart - Dana 60 & 70 ring gear bolts have teeth machined into their heads, replace the Sterling ring gear bolts with them and add some red loctite and you're pretty much guaranteed to never see them back out. Which the Sterling bolts apparently do in some situations.

Red locktite on the bolts that hold the axle shafts to wheel hubs as well. If that means wirewheeling the bolts and degreasing and air blowing the holes they thread in so be it. This is not optional, we've have members experience them getting loose. Torque to specs with red loctite, should be good to go for ages to come.

Ok now being somewhat almost asleep here is my ?s For you.

Swap 1 is a LS carrier no gears (had 3.55)..swapped into where there currently an open diff with 4.10. He wants a posi in his truck and his pu box trailer has said carrier but wrong gear set...bolt ring gear on and hope for best???

Swap 2

Said open carrier in swap 1 comes to me. I toss my 4.10 ring on it drop it in my axle hope for best....oh with lunch box btw

So both those should be pretty straight swaps no setting up....hopefully correct?

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Yes, on both counts. Our POS was 4.10 open from the factory, at some point it got a LSD carrier but kept the factory gears, then at some later point 3.55s got dropped onto that LSD carrier, and then still later on another LSD carrier replaced the 1st one cause forgot why. Pinion shims never left their respective pinions, carrier shims never left the axle housing. Perfect pattern and backlash every time. When it's finally Detroit time the initial setup will definitely gonna use the factory carrier shims again.

 

[IDIoit]

one thing id like to point out, and Russ can correct me if im wrong, is that....

your bearings on the pinion may look good, but ive always been told that mis-matched bearings and races are a no bueno.
you really cant get the races out of the other diff without boogering them up either.

my experience with differentials stops at 3 9"'s and a couple of BOP 8.2's
but ive only screwed up 1! thankfully. i am no, nor do i claim to be an expert.

before i replaced the gears in my 8.2 which is a cast pumpkin with a rear inspection cover,
i measured from the face of the pinion to the bosses for the centersection (centerline of centersection) before tearing it apart.
i replaced the the shims from the old pinion to the new, i had to actually remove .010 if i remember correctly to get my distance that was provided by Richmond.
and the new bearing races did mess with me for a bit.

after the pinion was in correctly, the rest was childs play. backlash and wear pattern were easily accomplished by moving shims.
shes had many trips down the track. and the only issue ive ever had with it was trying to push it around by hand with the bran new clutches in the LSD.

 

[typ4]

junk, what lcam said about the radius is spot on but only do one side of the spacer, you want the sharp angle on the shim side for the most area for the shim to sit on. Also with a yoke that is tight on the splines losing the crush sleeve solves the short pinion problem most cases.
I would replace the ring gear bolts with dana 70 parts. also If towing I would replace the axle bolts, they likely have been in and out enough to be stretched, I dont loctite the axle bolts, not necessary with new, torqued properly, mine used to loosen on the 4x4 till I replaced them, many towing miles later they are still tight.

 

[junk]

Any special bolts to use on the axle shafts?

right now I'm planning to pickup the following
Dana 70 ring gear bolts
Ratech 4105 Crush sleeve eliminator kit (solid spacer)
pinion nut
pinion seal

Now what about this bearing discussion? I'm not trying to be a total cheap ass, but I'm trying to do this cost effective also. So what's the verdict? I'll be honest I'm 99% leaning towards reusing all the bearings.