Fluid chnage in E4OD throws a code!

[trackspeeder]

The solenoid connector repair harness has shipped and should be here in a few days. On the way home tonight, I was going up a hill and not really giving it much throttle has I had built up some speed before the hill. About half way up, the light started flashing. The trans had not downshifted, no change in rpm's on the tach that I noticed, no shudder. I know the TCM has already detected and stored other "events" in order to set off the light at this time, and this was the last event needed to make the "quota" and trigger the light. I just find it odd that the TCM will detect a slip in this situation when I am not giving a lot of throttle as opposed to not detecting a slip when I have the throttle wide open pulling a hill. I am just thinking more and more that the torque converter is the culprit and is just starting to fail, since there is not chatter or shudder. You guys already know the question I am going to ask if my testing shows the TCCS to be fine: What TC would you guys recommend to balance cost with reasonably robust operation? I only very rarely tow something heavy (like a bobcat maybe once a year) and for only short distances, and only haul loads in the truck sporadically (loads of topsoil, firewood, lumber, etc.). Usually the truck just runs empty back and forth to work. I can't see spending $800 or more on a TC for that type of use, but around $400 - 500 could be doable.

It don't need to have a heavy foot to make the tranny slip. It can slip with a steady foot on the go peddle Slip is detected by speed and RPM. When they are out of spec you will get a slip code.
The converter can slip without shudder. Shudder comes when the clutch material is very much gone.

Even if you don't tow heavy I always recommend going with a multi disk billet cover converter. Billet to prevent warping. Multi disk to increase clutch surface.
Also change out the converter regulator spring. This will increase clamping force and lesson the chance of slipping.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

.......................................

 

[tbrumm]

Thanks for your reply. Trackspeeder. Any specific model of converter you would recommend?

FORDF250HDXLT - I pulled up that sheet from the TRANSGO site too, and thanks for linking that up. Buying a new tach sensor may be worth a try here - if nothing else, I will have a spare (which I should have on hand anyway).

 

[trackspeeder]

Converters. www.racerxusa.com

 

[tbrumm]

The solenoid connector repair harness arrived yesterday, so today I set about checking the resistance in the solenoid pack. I labeled each wire with the corresponding pin number beforehand so I didn't have to pay attention to wire colors while laying under the truck. The following is what I found by connecting between the noted wires with my digital multimeter:
SS1-wires 1 and 2 20.6 ohms
SS2-wires 1 and 3 20.5 ohms
TCC-wires 1 and 4 20.6 ohms
SS3-wires 1 and 5 20.3 ohms
EPC-wires 11 and 12 4.6 ohms
So, it looks like the solenoid pack is within spec's for resistance (and I assume lower resistance is better than higher in this situation?)
When I removed the old connector from the solenoid pack plug, the rubber o-ring in the pack connector decided to come part way out too
That was fun trying to get that o-ring back in the groove in the pack connector working from below with a flashlight, inspection mirror and pick. It took a while, and required patience, but I finally got the o-ring back in the groove. Whew!

 

[direwulf23]

I am hoping to piggyback on this thread as my question is related and I couldn't find a more recent thread about it; nor did I think we needed another new E4OD code thread.
I keep getting code 62. I have tried cleaning the solenoid plug/ pack thoroughly and inspected thoroughly. All seemed well, visually. I am having the 62 in same instances, but I can pull some hills with no problem, but only if I have momentum and don't push really hard.
Would code 62 appear if any of the s - pack malfunctions, like the TOT? I knew the transmission was overheated pulling a heavy camper trailer by the PO and I did, initially get that code when I first scanned it. Now, is it possible the TOT part of the s - pack is bad and throwing the TCM into code 62? If this is correct, would replacing the s - pack fix that?

1994 Ford F250, 2wd, 7.3L IDI, NA, E4OD

2006 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer, 2wd, 5.4L, automatic

 

[tbrumm]

direwulf23 - feel free to add to this thread as needed. From my searches and from your other posts, I saw you also were having the dreaded "Code 62" issue, and there are tons of threads on OB about it. I would "think" that the TOT sensor gone bad would throw "Code 26", but I am sure Trackspeeder and FORDF250HDXLT will respond with their wealth of knowledge. I am trying to learn more about this "Code 62" problem, and the E4OD in general, and the guys on here have been very patient and very helpful. Especially considering this particular problem occurs over and over again and new threads are always appearing on it. In my case, I am nearly done with my electrical testing (I am still going to try a new tach sensor) and following that, will probably have the converter replaced. The code 62 will always stay away for a few days of driving but eventually returns, which seems to mean intermittent TCC slippage which will only get worse over time.

 

[direwulf23]

My theory suggests a bad TOT causes a general break in communication to the TCM causing it to "think" the converter is slipping.

1994 Ford F250, 2wd, 7.3L IDI, NA, E4OD

2006 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer, 2wd, 5.4L, automatic

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

if your getting tot codes you can test the tot in same manner tbrumm just did using a pigtail and the thread he used.if the TECA gets info from the TOT about the fluid being too cold,it wont lock the converter.....however since this is normal until trans warm up,it doesn't trigger 62 because the TECA knows the converter shouldn't lock up yet.

test the tccs:

http://www.oilburners.net/forums/showthread.php?70217-Testing-E4OD-Solenoid-Pack-and-Code-referrence

measuring the tot specifically:
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53740&d=1418897311


don't forget to make sure your TECA is properly commanding the solenoid to tell the converter to lock up guys.these can go bad too.all you need is a test light.last paragraph in this one;
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53534&d=1418168600


if you ground that TCC wire.which iirc is yellow and purple? this will lock the converter up too.despite if the TECA commands it or not.just insure to ungrounded it when coming to a stop or you could do serious damage!!!!

 

[tbrumm]

The code 62 keeps returning every few days of driving. Still no physical evidence of the TC actually going bad (such as shuddering or chattering) and lockup is still smooth. However, I think I have done all the electrical checks I can do and the code keeps coming back. I just replaced the tach sensor, so we will see if that makes a difference while driving this next week, but I do not expect it to. So, I have been looking at the RacerX TC website that Trackspeeder suggested. The "Prowler" TC is around $500 and is probably what I would go with - any thoughts on that? Is the "Eagle" with its $630 price tag really needed with an IDI? Considering what the other triple disc billet converters (such as BD, ATS, PI, etc.) are going for, RacerX converters appear to be a relative bargain in the marketplace. What a myriad of choices! So, while I am in the process of trying to "accept" the fact that the trans is going to have to come out, I have been doing research on what "should" (read that as what I can afford) be done when the trans is out. This research has made my head spin! Being as my trans is a 1994, shouldn't this have many of the so-called "updates" already? I don't want to do a full rebuild while the trans is out, and with the light use, proper maintenance, external filter and big cooler it has had, I am really hoping the rest of the trans is still okay. But, I am also trying to view the TC replacement as an opportunity to improve some things while the trans is out. I know you guys have been asked this over and over, but what are some good things to do without having to get a second mortgage? I am planning on having the TransGo Tugger kit installed. Does that include parts to do the the so-called "pump correction" to get better TC lockup? If not, what kit or parts do i need for that? I see RacerX offers a high performance front pump seal -thought that would be a good thing to do. What Internal trans parts would be considered a "must do" but not require a full dis assembly and rebuild process? Again, the research I have done just confused me more, and a lot of what I see suggested being done is toward the quest of a more "bulletproof" E4OD that can pull a house down, rather than a more "budget-minded", occasional towing, but with longevity in mind E4OD. I appreciate any advice on this you guys can offer. Thanks for your patience in dealing with these E4OD questions over and over again!

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

no.the E40D didn't get the big list of updates until the '95 model year.an easy way to remember it,is just after the idi era.
yes.the transgo tugger kit comes with the required parts to mod the front pump.

i did what your about to for preventive maintenance and not much longer od went out and required a total reman.don't go too crazy on an oem pre '95 trans.imho they are not "worth" top quality converters.i learned my lesson.only install high quality parts when your having a total reman/update done.this is my opinion.your results may vary.
this is why if you read through the log truck thread,i went as light as possible and forced myself to figure out what needed to be done to save and just make the old pre '95 unit limp along low buck.when the time comes,she might get a multi thousand trans,complete with high end converter too but since it wasn't slipping at all, it was worth some elbow grease and a few bucks just to keep it going for a bit and she's going great still.

 

[anotheridi]

no.the E40D didn't get the big list of updates until the '95 model year.an easy way to remember it,is just after the idi era.
yes.the transgo tugger kit comes with the required parts to mod the front pump.

i did what your about to for preventive maintenance and not much longer od went out and required a total reman.don't go too crazy on an oem pre '95 trans.imho they are not "worth" top quality converters.i learned my lesson.only install high quality parts when your having a total reman/update done.this is my opinion.your results may vary.
this is why if you read through the log truck thread,i went as light as possible and forced myself to figure out what needed to be done to save and just make the old pre '95 unit limp along low buck.when the time comes,she might get a multi thousand trans,complete with high end converter too but since it wasn't slipping at all, it was worth some elbow grease and a few bucks just to keep it going for a bit and she's going great still.

This it great advice, and the reason why on my issues I will be going with a cheap converter for now. If I can limp mine along for 20k-40k longer while I source and rebuild a new trans that would be great. Heck if it makes it 10k more ill be money ahead. I just don't trust the converter in mine and I don't want it shelling parts throughout my transmission as it is still working just fine.

Also it is always a good idea to never reuse a converter, even though I do not follow that advice all the time (my 03 civic daily driver did not get a new coverter when I rebuilt the trans at 132k. It now has 152k and has not skipped a beat. Fingers crossed).

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

yeah i was reading in your thread anotheridi that your experiencing converter shutter.this sure does help to have symptoms like that where things point to mechanical failure.

tbrumm,did you setup a light to insure the control unit is commanding the converter to lock and that the light remains on during the slip code? you can't trust these old tca's too much either.especially when you feel nothing going on yourself in the seat.no rise in rpms seen or felt,no slipping of gear feeling,no abnormal readings of the speedo or tach.no shutter.no nothing other than the teca saying you've got an issue.

edit.oh wow.i just looked at your sig.we're talking about a truck that went unused and only has a verified 32k miles on it? everything,the whole story,the whole picture is just screaming something faulty other than mechanical.

 

[tbrumm]

no.the E40D didn't get the big list of updates until the '95 model year.an easy way to remember it,is just after the idi era.

That is indeed good to know! I had seen where many trans builders won't even accept a pre '95 E4OD as a core! I have to say, perhaps the best plan would be to get a cheaper converter and just install that and hope the trans continues on for a while. Either I save up money for a future trans build or start looking for a 5 speed donor truck. Guess it is a good thing that I haven't towed much with the stock E4OD - it probably wouldn't have tolerated much. I have now owned 3 Ford automatics in recent history, (always bought manual trans before but they get harder and harder to find) and every one of them has had problems despite proper maintenance. The TC in my 1997 Ranger was going out at 130k and I sold it before I had to deal with it. The TC is my Wife's 2003 Explorer went out at 121k and sent debris through the trans requiring a rebuild. And now the TC on my 1994 F350 at 93k. Hmmm-seems to be pattern here. I know the newer manuals have their own problems too (dual mass flywheels, clutch replacement). It just gets hard to justify a $3-4k trans rebuild (and removal and install) in a truck that is worth 5-6k at the most. It is more justified if you are making money with the truck as opposed to the truck just being a daily driver and occasional hauler. OK, I have cried in my beer long enough - on to solutions!
So, is it still "worth it" to install the Tugger kit if I throw in a cheaper TC and don't do anything else to the trans?

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

oh 93k on the truck now.ok.well lets go through this.what causes the converter to slip.

You must be registered for see images attach

so your 100% of the fluid level correct? nothing like foaming,nothing odd or strange about the dipstick or tube being bent or replaced with anything wrong? (since your not "feeling" any slip.i think it's safe to say this is good.)

lockup signal.
try that light indicator setup as shown in the link.make 100% sure the TECA isn't telling the solenoid to unlock the converter.


you went through and tested the entire pack correct?

the bulkhead/s-pack connector and the entire trans harness was inspected 100% and then cleaned correct?

#3......not sure what seal this means.-search this or wait for trackspeeder

#4 is what i addressed with log truck while i was there.i removed the plastic valve and installed a metal one.

step 6:

no im mistaken i think.^that's another issues that can be updated altogether.i think what the atsg is talking about actually in #4 will be addressed when you install the transgo kits.#3 shown bellow:

so what the ATSG is saying,is if that bore isn't clean or it's spring is weak,then the lockup can be frigged up.trackspeeder can help verify.