Do you think I'm toasting the IP?

[icanfixall]

Well isn't that interesting news about vegi oil. I had no idea that stuff was in it. I tend to agree in principle with dragrag on his opinnion too but I hate to knowingly ruin something. I suppose one could have a spare injection pump behind the rear seat too just in case something happened out on the road some dark nite. It wouldn't have to be a newly rebuilt pump. Just a known reliable good used pump. Some of us keep lots of stuff behind the rear seat...

 

[Devon Harley]

The soap substance for those who don't know about wvo should if you filtered it correctly. You can run the oil through hot water tanks an process it an skim that soap **** off the top that's the most important thing. Also if you haven't filtered it down to 1/2 micron. Your probley complaining it tearing up my pump an it will. I would not just think of using somthing 1-5 micron unless its double filtered. I do 2-1-1/2. Three times. Dirty oil with the gly present only gets worse it passing through hot pump causes it to break down an go into tight tolerances an set there an screw things up also hints super heating of it is a waste of time an energy. So filter your oil correctly don't heat oil to 180 degrees to run in engine doesn't make since only needs to be around normal room temp or less. I have ran 55% in 24degrees an it started like a brand new fresh engine with new plugs injectors an gps.

 

[jaluhn83]

Remember that these pumps are very very intricately designed and they base the timing and timing advance on fuel viscosity. So when you run WVO you're going to be screwing up the timing curve causing excessive advance.

 

[laserjock]

I've done a lot of reading on biofuels etc. and I am a chemist. This is just my 2 cents but here it is. There is a reason that biodiesel is generally processed via trans esterification. Trans esterification, will do a few things for you. It converts the fatty acids and triglycerides to fatty esters making the stuff flow better. As a side effect, for properly processed fuel, it is essentially washed and dried to remove the glycerine (the left over part removed from the fatty acid chains) and any remaining water from the processesing steps. Properly processed and filtered biodiesel should pose no risk to anything EXCEPT for the lubrication aspect. Biodiesel doesn't have the "impurities" (sulfur and such) that lubricate the pumps so IMO you really must run some type of compatible additive.

There is also a separate issue that comes from running the biofuels. Nature is really good at producing essentially the same three chain length molecules in most plant materials (C 16, 18, and 20 if memory serves). Diesel fuel as refined from petroleum is a messy mixture of all kinds of stuff that essetially is only separated by boiling point. What this means is that when you mix the biodiesel with regular #2, you can have a clouding problem. Its the old "like dissolves like" situation similar to having your salad dressing separate. This is why you typically can find B20 but much over that is not readily commercially available because if you aren't careful in mixing it, the stuff will precipitate in the line and as documented, solids in your fuel is bad for the IP. Heating will help this but if you have a cold spot somewhere, you could start to have the biodiesel crash out.

It has really bothered me for a while seeing people run straight WVO. I can almost get behind WMO better because it doesn't have the precipitation problem because again, it is a nasty mixture of molecules with similar boiling points.

 

[7river]

So far from what I read, I think my inline filter just before the IP is a great solution for these WVO IP problems.
I think a lot of people get WVO and Biodiesel confused. I don't think vegetable oil eats anything.

WVO is waste vegetable oil mostly collected from restaurants w/fryers
New oil is used as well but I like recycling and it's free
The oil is filtered and then heated onboard to match the viscosity of the diesel so the injector will atomize it and it will flash/vaporize/combustion


Biodiesel is a chemical process where the WVO (or new veg oil) is mixed with methanol and lye to make a chemical reaction to remove the glycerin, then the lye is washed out of it and you have a fuel close to diesel that does not need to be heated onboard

Biodiesel has a lot of waste product and uses a lot of energy to make it.
I run WVO because I can get it on the road, low investment cost and no chemicals.

An interesting bit of info, Rudolph Diesel invented the Diesel engine to run off straight veggie oil. He had this whole vision of counties growing there own fuel and being sustainable. He "disappeared" and his engines were tweaked for #2 oil, which they named "Diesel fuel". What a kick in the ass!

 

[icanfixall]

Thats some great information about vegi oil proper filtering. Glad to have been here to read this.

 

[gatorman21218]

I've done a lot of reading on biofuels etc. and I am a chemist. This is just my 2 cents but here it is. There is a reason that biodiesel is generally processed via trans esterification. Trans esterification, will do a few things for you. It converts the fatty acids and triglycerides to fatty esters making the stuff flow better. As a side effect, for properly processed fuel, it is essentially washed and dried to remove the glycerine (the left over part removed from the fatty acid chains) and any remaining water from the processesing steps. Properly processed and filtered biodiesel should pose no risk to anything EXCEPT for the lubrication aspect. Biodiesel doesn't have the "impurities" (sulfur and such) that lubricate the pumps so IMO you really must run some type of compatible additive.

There is also a separate issue that comes from running the biofuels. Nature is really good at producing essentially the same three chain length molecules in most plant materials (C 16, 18, and 20 if memory serves). Diesel fuel as refined from petroleum is a messy mixture of all kinds of stuff that essetially is only separated by boiling point. What this means is that when you mix the biodiesel with regular #2, you can have a clouding problem. Its the old "like dissolves like" situation similar to having your salad dressing separate. This is why you typically can find B20 but much over that is not readily commercially available because if you aren't careful in mixing it, the stuff will precipitate in the line and as documented, solids in your fuel is bad for the IP. Heating will help this but if you have a cold spot somewhere, you could start to have the biodiesel crash out.

It has really bothered me for a while seeing people run straight WVO. I can almost get behind WMO better because it doesn't have the precipitation problem because again, it is a nasty mixture of molecules with similar boiling points.

I disagree. I thought biodiesel was the best lubricant out there.

And Ive also thought that sulfur itself is not a lubricant. Its the different stock they refine the fuel from (aromatic vs paraffin) and the process in which they remove the sulfur (hydrogenation) also strips the lubricating properties

And WMO has its own problems. Unless you distill it, no amount of filtering will remove all the metal particles from WMO. And fine metal particles are the worst thing for an injection pump.

 

[laserjock]

I'm pretty sure sulfur is a pretty good lubricant. Look at the problems caused by ultra-low sulfur diesel. I had not considered the effects on the base stock by the desulfurization process. I can see where hydrogenation would force the fuel to be more parafinic. Hydrogenating the double bonds out of the stock would make the aromatic stuff look more parafinic.

I hit the literature. Turns out there are many factors that play into the lubricity of biodiesel. This paper has a pretty good review in the introduction. http://www.myotherdrive.com/dyn/dl/... of biodiesel as fuel lubricity enhancers.pdf

This is another really good article on the subject. It references reports by stanadyne.
http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-performace_usage/lubricity-benefits.pdf

I stand corrected. I am really surprised by the findings but the data is there.

This has been a good discussion. I'm still looking for references on my points on clouding. I try to admit when I'm wrong. Better research will set you free.

 

[7river]

Well isn't that interesting news about vegi oil. I had no idea that stuff was in it. I tend to agree in principle with dragrag on his opinnion too but I hate to knowingly ruin something. I suppose one could have a spare injection pump behind the rear seat too just in case something happened out on the road some dark nite. It wouldn't have to be a newly rebuilt pump. Just a known reliable good used pump. Some of us keep lots of stuff behind the rear seat...

I don't like knowingly ruining something too...or throwing out something useful. I striped the engine (alt, started, IP,etc and will be wraping and stowing under the bus somewhere...maybe wired to the axle