Coolant is Black as OIL.

[8v-of-fury]

OK.. It does seem that in that diagram.. there are two different O-rings.

When i took the cooler off the truck it had two smaller o-rings (outer ends of cooler tube) and two thicker non round rings in more of a rectangular shape (inner ends of the tube).

To be honest, the o-rings looked pretty good and were still in perfect condition. but the paper gaskets were non-existent (possibly where the leaks were?). I ended up reusing the inner thicker rings and using new outer rings and new gaskets. I undid the motor mounts but found no good spot to jack the motor from, so i did not lift the engine. The cooler cam apart in two pieces when removing it. New gaskets and gasket maker on i put the front head back on and tightened it down. I put the new ring on the rear of the tube and smacked the other header down on to it, also put the new gasket and gasket glue. slide it up in to place and used a pry bar to seat the tube in the front header. It popped and seated, i know this because one; I heard and felt it, and two; the bolts lined up to their holes. I blame the ****** paper gaskets.. There may have been some oil or coolant or both on the mating surfaces.. I believe they did not seat correctly.... Causing my problems.. I will now have to drain the oil again, I will be re-using the oil and filter... I don't really care right now.. luckily i only have water and soap in the rad.. no money lost there.. I will however have to go get some new paper **** gaskets.. as im sure the others are toasted.

Where do i jack the engine up from? there is no suitable place i found...

OLDBULL8 used a clamp to squish his cooler together, is there anything wrong with the method i chose? Do you guys think i just screwed up on the paper gaskets?? that's where it looks like it is FLOWING from. I mean if the cooler fit back on in its bolt holes lined up.. the ends would have to be seated properly right...

I need to walk away from this one guys

 

[typ4]

If you used sealer on the gaskets and overtightened the bolts it will split the gaskets. The bigger rings started out as O rings and heat set flat, if you dont change them they will cause trouble.
I would put the gaskets on dry and do not over torque them. Are you using ford gaskets, they are seal printed with a little orange bead.

 

[8v-of-fury]

I did use sealer on the gaskets. I wasn't aware of over tightening splitting the gaskets. So there are two different O-rings? Thought all four were the same? I didn't change them because i was told to get 4 identical o-rings of the part number 6K649... Wrong move? I do need 6C610?? That is why I didn't put all 4 on because i didn't have the proper ones.. and they looked fine...

I got the gaskets from a local parts store.. they did have the orange gasket on them.. I added my own gasket glue to make an extra seal..

You say to use the gaskets with no gasket maker stuff?

Also do YOU know how to jack the engine up so that I can put the cooler in in one piece?

 

[8v-of-fury]

Nothing eh? Making it very hard for me to do any work on this truck when i cant get any answers guys

 

[Mat J]

could be possible the oil cooler is bad maybe one of the lines inside it has a hole and its letting the two mix. I dont know how likely that would be though. I havnt had to mess with mine so I cant be much more help.

 

[david85]

Don't worry about reusing the oil after a brief run like that. Go to a paint store and get a paint strainer to filter the oil out before putting it back into the engine. Time consuming but safer than dumping it strait back in and way cheaper than getting new oil. Also clean out the catch pan thoroughly BEFORE draining the oil you want to reuse into it.

I suspect there was a problem with the gasket getting incorrectly aligned or something getting in the way when you torqued it down. Careful inspection should tell you what went wrong so you can aviod it happening again. You also need to scrape and clean it VERY thoroughly before the new gasket can seat properly. Scrape, then solvent....... clean enough to eat off of will give it the best chance.

Here is a factory manual for the 6.9, maybe you missed something and reading about the oil cooler here will help you figure out where you went wrong.

http://www.garagenet.biz/85forddiesel.pdf

Sorry, I never had to jack the engine in the truck. Maybe you can try and reach to the exhaust manifold with something.

While you have everything off, also take the time to make sure there isn't any crack or corrosion that is causing the leay at the cooler ends. Rare, but it can happen.

 

[8v-of-fury]

David,

It would appear that I did do everything to spec.. except I may have wrecked the paper gaskets.... I used the sealer on them but i think I should have let it sit with them lightly tightened to set the gasket sealer.. I will do that this time around. lol Good to hear I can save the oil.. and luckily all i have is Water and Soap in the rad . I wire brushed it real good and it looked pretty clean.

Mat J, I'm going to have to go with the lack of gaskets between the headers and block to be the suspect of why it was leaking oil in to the coolant.

Question.. how does this small flimsy paper gasket keep the 90-100 psi oil pressure out of the 10-15 coolant pressure?? it seems its a system designed to failll lmao

 

[david85]

How clean are the bolt threads in the block? If those are too filthy, you won't get enough clamping force to seal the gasket properly. What I got in the habit of doing is running a machine tap of the correct size through the bolt hole on an engine where parts this sensitive are involved. The torque settings assume clean, smooth running threads and even if you over torqued the bolts, you might not have enough clamping force on the gasket.

If you don't have a tap handy for that, even a bolt of the correct size that has a notch cut in the end can clean the threads well enough to remove most of the stiffness.

You also need to use a solvent to clean the surface off so it can make direct contact between the paper and metal.

When using RTV sealer (Permatex ultra black is ideal for oily parts like this), you are indeed supposed to only finger tighten the bolts, then let the part sit for about one hour (longer if its cold outside). After it has a chance to set up, then you tighten them down. Depending on the situation, you go one extra half turn or down to torque spec.

Having said all that, I don't follow the set time by the book when used in addition to a paper gasket. Usually I just put a very thin fim of the stuff on, and torque it right down. Its worked fine for me so far

Try and be as gentile as possible when you pull it apart. I'm 95% sure there will be some clues as to what might be wrong.

 

[8v-of-fury]

David, it does seem the failure was not in the rings, but in fact in the paper gaskets.

When i took it off the first time the two headers practically fell off the tube in my hands while moving it around.. now they are ON THERE! trying to pry them off so i can get it off the truck! Can I jack the engine by the bell housing?? seems the only spot i can get a good spot to jack from that won't be right in the way..

As soon as i loosened the bolts it started to seep from the Cooler/Block gaskets.. so we did not have proper seal there.. Glad to know I did the rings correctly though If the two ends are stuck together this well is it safe to assume that the rings will suffice being that the two bigger ones were not changed?

 

[91f2504x4]

I would not trust the old inner o-rings. Just because it is stuck together doesn't mean that they ate sealing. If you had oil and coolant mixing in the first place then it very well could have been the inner o-rings. The outter o-rings that you replaced keep your fluids from leaking out of the engine where the inner o-ring keeps them from mixing. When I had my engine apart I replaced the cooler o-rings even though they weren't leaking, I was just bwing prevenative. But anyway mine was terribly hard to pull the ends off the tube, but one apart the o-rings were so brittle that the broke apart wheb I tried to remove them, so just because they are hard to get apart doesn't mean they are good, my o-rings cracks, I am really suprised it didn't leak.

 

[RLDSL]

Ideally you aren't supposed to need a sealer , but if the surfaces are pitted ( i.e. higher mileage engine ), you will get seepage if you don't. A very thin film of Hylomar racing formula works great or a light spray coat of the aerosol version. Tighten the bolts evenly.

 

[8v-of-fury]

Thin Film? I had a good 1/8" bead! lmao

I want to do this right the second time here. I cannot remove the one piece deal with out jacking the engine.. I have discovered this to be true. I have had the mount bolts off.. just never found a good spot to jack from the first time.. I put it back on in two pieces.. Bell housing? can i jack from there?

Spray adhesive? does it have to be coolant and oil rated? or can i use it to mainly just hold the gasket in place? Someone said Permatex ultra black is ideal for oily parts like this, I have some and will use a THIN FILM this time of it!

Another question I would like to ask and this one is especially important.. The inner o rings.. the stock ones.. or at least the ones that were on there... WERE HUGE! a lot bigger then the four 6K649 i bought.. Do i need two of the 6C610 or w.e they are?

I used some bold there to kinda outline what I NEED to know

thanks a lot guys for all your help!

 

[david85]

I think you are safe to jack against the bellhousing as long as you don't go against any tin parts. Use a soft wood block to soften the load.

Wait, different size O rings?? Where did you get the repacement O rings?

Are you able to post any pictures of the new vs old seals?

 

[8v-of-fury]

SEE 6C610. lol. they are different sizes then the 6K649 by far.. a lot bigger. when you did yours.. were they the same size David? When I took mine apart there was four rings altogether two big two small.. so two 6k649 and two 6c610.. I went through Ford. they asked if i needed the six that it shows there.. i said nope.. just four 6K649's please.. $19 a ring!

I will get some pictures up tonight

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[david85]

My O rings matched the size of the old ones and it was all but impossible for me to reassemble the cooler by hand because the fit was so tight. I gingerly used a 50 ton shop press to force the parts all together. Only difference between old and new was the color of the old ones. 2 of them were orange where all of the new ones were black.

Only 4 fat O rings in total in my case. I seem to remember them being about the same thickness but diameter was slightly different between the pairs. I never heard of six O rings in the cooler, but this might be getting over my head.

Has anyone else heard of 6 O ring coolers for these trucks?