Blue Smoke at cold idle, White smoke after descent/climb (air intrusion)

IDIBRONCO

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Cliff Notes: While climbing the pass, no bucking or white smoke. When descending the pass, no bucking or white smoke.
White smoke aside, what I gather from this is that your issue occurs after you re-engage overdrive. This is starting to make me wonder if there is a transmission problem, not an engine problem. The determining factor is how hard it "bucks". If it's hard, then it's probably not transmission related. If it's just slightly felt, I'm thinking that it sounds like the torque convertor locking and unlocking for some reason. Now I may ne WAAAY off on this, but since you've already proved that your "air intrusion" issues was fuel restriction, then maybe this isn't fuel or air related either. One more thing. Weren't you having some kind of transmission issues after you got the van and wasn't it doing it on your last trip to South Dakota? Either way, advance your timing and see what happens.
 

Cant Write

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@IDIBRONCO while the trans definitely is finicky and I think it could use some love and attention, this is definitely not the trans.

The relation of the OD engagement is to signify when the IP gets a break after a long strenuous climb, or after a long engine braking descent.

I will definitely advance the timing. Any advice how far? A dime’s width? I do not have a timing meter, anyone you recommend?

Drove it tonight. Went up Norwood Hill, which I thought I might experience air intrusion on both the climb and descent. Experienced none. Leads me further down the timing assumption.

Thanks everyone!! Will report back.
 

bumblebeer

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So how about advancing timing a dime width, drive it from there?

I will definitely advance the timing. Any advice how far? A dime’s width? I do not have a timing meter, anyone you recommend?

Yeah, a dimes width rotation towards the passenger fender should give you a few degrees advance and would be fine to try. I'd recommend scribing a line across the IP and IP gear housing BEFORE you loosen the nuts holding the pump. Then you can see how far you have moved it and easily set it back to where it was before if you need.

I will read up on the clear tubing. I can easily put a piece from the filter to the IP.

Yeah that should work. It's usually put between the lift pump and filter head, but with your filter being in an odd spot may be easier to go between the filter and IP like you said. Just remember any air will have got in either at or before the lift pump regardless of where it shows up. Everything after the lift pump is under pressure and can only leak diesel but not pull air, at least while the engine is running.

Regarding Compression: yesterday to bleed the air out of the system, I disabled the GP relay. 10 am, 70F, and it fired without the plugs on what fuel was in the IP. Been at least 2 weeks.

Starting without the plugs is a good sign, but it doesn't necessarily rule anything out. I have a 7.3 that has a hole with really bad compression, but it has no problem starting. Assuming it's primed lol.

Just cold started it. 60F here. 1 cycle of GP’s and fired right off without hesitation. And this is the photo of exhaust.

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Seems to me like a reasonable amount of smoke for a cold start. Does it clear up any once the engine gets to temp?

Fuel Filter has been relocated to trans crossmember by DOE. I was treated to this

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Just to clarify, on this picture, the fuel enters on the left of the filter and exits on the right?

Regarding the air intrusion/white smoke, I get 2 scenarios when I can almost guarantee it will happen.

1. Long grade descent (more than a mile) where I’m never on the accelerator. It will produce smoke when I re-engage OD and lightly step on the pedal. If I get on it hard to actually accelerate it will buck a few times (misfire due to air?) but will accelerate fine. Only puffing white smoke on the “bucks”.

2. Long hard climbs where direct is a must. And will only climb at 40-50 mph due to being NA and high elevation. I can only push the foot-feet so hard otherwise it pukes black smoke. I stop at a very slight haze. ONLY when I crest the Mtn pass and let up on the throttle position, engage OD and come back up to the speed limit will it start bucking and emit white smoke in rhythm. Again I can step on it hard and get it to work the air out sooner.

The relation of the OD engagement is to signify when the IP gets a break after a long strenuous climb, or after a long engine braking descent.

Thinking about things in terms of OD may be making the problem more difficult to reproduce. Would be better to think in terms of engine speed (rpm) vs accelerator pedal position. With an engine that's running retarded, you'd expect it to put out a good cloud of grayish blue smoke anytime the engine speed is significantly lower than where it should be for a given accelerator position. Keep in mind a normally timed engine will do this as well when the difference is high enough e.g. going up a hill at low rpm then hitting WOT. But you'd see it happen a lot more frequently if the engine is out of time.

Also, like IDIBRONCO said, it sounds like you may be having some tranny issues wether or not it's related to the smoke/air/timing issue. I don't know too much about these auto transmissions, but it sounds like you may need to look into adjusting your shift points or testing your throttle position sensor. You should be able to stay on the throttle going uphill. Being in high altitude, you may see some extra smoke vs sea level folks like me, but the trans should still downshift to match throttle position. On a long steep climb I'd expect it to drop to second and ride the governor. Depending on slope, you may only be moving 55, but that engine should be roaring!

And, I don't think it's contributing to your problem either way, but the injection pump isn't working hard at all when engine braking. As the engine spins faster then the throttle speed, the IP meters less and less fuel. To the point that if the throttle is at idle, and the engine is at high rpm like when engine braking, the IP is basically injecting no fuel.

In any case, it sounds like you have a good plan of attack. Let us know how it goes!
 

Cant Write

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Thanks so much everyone.

@bumblebeer yes the smoke clears up once warm. And yes lift pump to left side of fuel filter, and fuel exits right side to IP.

That 1/4 supply to IP has been replaced with 3/8th.
 

ISPKI

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Blue smoke in the exhaust is almost always oil burning in combustion and white smoke (not grey, white) is normally an indicator of coolant burning off in combustion. Usually, that will smell similar to pancakes or waffles but its a toss up based on the type of coolant you use. May have a possible head gasket issue or somewhat worn rings or a valve issue (stem, seat, etc would explain the blue smoke but not the white). That is unless oil is fouling up an injector causing it to fail to close up fully, allowing fuel to dribble in. Lots of variables to investigate.

Versilon C-210-A is a clear tube that will handle the temperature and pressures of your fuel system leading up to the IP. I picked up a small spool of it a while back to see air intrusion on my trucks. Another item to note is that the most common point of air intrusion are the injector return caps. Seems people have the most issues there with intrusion, likely because of just how many joints there are in the return system.

However, I have never known air intrusion to cause smoking issues. If you get air in an injector line sufficient to effect it's behavior, it likely just wont work at all and that cylinder wont fire until the air vents out of the system. Unless of course you have air intrusion AND a bad injector where the fuel is able to just dribble into the cylinder, although that would be pretty rare.
 

ISPKI

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DTI TechTime

This is a good meter that is fairly cheap (although it has gone up in price since a few years ago) and available for your future reference. This will give you an accurate timing value in real time relative to your engine RPM.
 

Cant Write

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@ISPKI thanks for your insight. In the 10k miles I’ve put on this thing, besides 1 oil change, I’ve added 3/4 of a quart total. Not sure if that changes things, but my wife’s 2022 DI suburban uses more oil. She sold it for a 2015 tundra!! She finally woke up to the light of no car payment!!

I thought injector return caps were a source for drain back issues, not air intrusion. I do not have drain back issues, or any leaks around return caps.

Will look into that clear tubing. Thanks!!

I saw @Big Bart still has a valid eBay link for that DTI Tech Time. If it needs to be done every 30k, IMA gonna order one. Thanks again ISPKI!!
 

Cant Write

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Before my kids wake up, I went out and prepared for timing adjustment. Cleaned the area to mark and I found this.

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Which I realize means nothing. But I’m thinking of just lining up the marks to begin with.
 

Cant Write

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DTI TechTime

This is a good meter that is fairly cheap (although it has gone up in price since a few years ago) and available for your future reference. This will give you an accurate timing value in real time relative to your engine RPM.
I just realized this links the same seller!! Thanks!!!

.......and I just ordered the meter
 
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bumblebeer

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Before my kids wake up, I went out and prepared for timing adjustment. Cleaned the area to mark and I found this.

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Which I realize means nothing. But I’m thinking of just lining up the marks to begin with.

Actually means a good deal. Tells you that is the original IP, and likely the original injectors as well, and that the timing has never been adjusted. After 85k it almost certainly could use some advanced.
 

Black dawg

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I have yet to see one that was timed correctly without being moved to the advanced side at least two widths of the line. I see that one is on the retarded side of the line.
 

Black dawg

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Since it is showing symptoms of being retarded, I would start with about a dimes thickness to the advanced side.

A quick check I do to know if the timing to too far retarded is with the first start of the day (with cold advance disconnected) is to rev it to 2k. If timing is in the atleast the 8.5 degree range, engine will run perfectly smooth even reved up. If the timing is where I like it, engine will run slightly rough and blow some white smoke. This usually is about the 4-6 degree range. If the timing is pretty retarded, usually 3 degrees or less, engine will run very rough and quite a bit of white smoke. This is all while revving the engine to 2k on a first start of the day within the first minute of running.
 

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