6.9 is best diesel yet....

[Drew2010]

FORD SAID IT! 6.9 is best diesel yet....

Ok i just have to share this....

I was at the farm progress show yesterday, and i went through the ford show trailer with all the new engines, me and a few others were talking to the guy about the new 6.7, someone asked a very obvious question "is this supposed to be more reliable then the 6.0".... I would have answered "well duh" but the ford guy said yes, the new 6.7 has the best warranty work record (no issues) since 1988... when he said this i asked, so are you saying the 6.9 was the best diesel ever put in a ford truck? he replied with some answer about how great the 6.7 is. He didnt know what to say.

But yes ford admitted yesterday that the 6.9 was the best diesel to date...

Now dont get me wrong, I think the new 6.7 is a good engine, but I think Ford is a little too proud of their "all ford built" diesel, and I think they are getting pretty good at throwing navistar under the bus... I just think they should be a little more appreciative of Navistar, after all, they did get them in the diesel market. And if International is so bad, why did they use them from 83 to 2010????

 

[wmoguy]

lol thats cool!


I actually know a guy who worked on the injection system for the 6.0 before Ford got their hands on it. Word is that Ford wasn't happy with the power it was going to make and was worried about competing w/ the competition in the HP wars. Ford had the injection system reconfigured against this group of engineers recommendations. Well we all know the story of the 6.0. Obviously it has more issues than just injection and fuel related but like always, when you change one thing you can expect some sort of proportionate change elsewhere.

 

[FordGuy100]

Or perhaps the dude didnt even know about the 6.9. Just saying.

Difference between ford and IH 6.0's was tuning, and also the coolant they came from the factory with. Ford 6.0's came with Ford Gold coolant....

 

[Drew2010]

Or perhaps the dude didnt even know about the 6.9. Just saying.

No he knew about it, he knew 88 was the "indirect 7.3L" he said he "couldnt speak on the 6.9 being better at that time" one of the guys standing there was an old farmer said he uses his 86 6.9 every day since he bought it new... he seemed to like my comment.

And yes I wanted to get into that, about Ford engineers screwing with what Navistar built... I had a lot left to look at that day and I figured I would make that guy look like a dumba** anyway. lol

 

[Late_99_psd]

Of couse they have a great warranty record, they've only been out a year

 

[snicklas]

I have read similar stories about Ford having more to do with the issues the 6.0 had/have, vs what IH had initially produced.

It all came down to the root of most of issues today.... the bean counters got involved....

IH developed the VT365 / 6.0PSD as they normally do, overbuilt to last forever. They showed it to Ford, with the price per unit (engine), and Ford said that is too much.... we want to lower the cost per unit..... They wanted the injectors changed, IH recommened against it, since it would effect reliability and longevity of the engine, and Ford's response was basically, if it lasts until the warrenty is expired, that is all they need. So the engine was "cheapened up" at Ford's request... and now we all know what that has caused.

IH runs the VT365, with their design, engine management system, EGR system, and not had near the issues the Ford had with the 6.0PSD. One other thing, like in all the other engines, Ford increased HP, and the Govenor limits. The 6.0 is 325hp/590tq/4000rpm, from Ford. The VT365 is something like 250/500/3000.... much like the difference in the past, even in the 6.9 and 7.3 IDI.... an IH pump for an IDI is governed at 2800rpm..... vs the 3800rpm Ford pump.....

But, Ford, in trying to save their neck/name..... threw IH under the bus....... and pointed the finger at them as the problem.... when the 6.4 did not have near the issues, and it was still made by IH...... reminds me of a story about a Pinto.......

 

[hesutton]

Thanks for sharing that. I still wonder how different our trucks and Ford's place in the light truck diesel market would be if they had went with the DT360 rather than the 6.9.


Heath

 

[92F350CC]

I agree with what was said about the 6.0 development. But here is a point for discussion. IH was undoubtedly aware of the brewing HP wars. WHY THE HELL did they design the engine to only be durable at 250/500/3000? I understand that that is a sufficient power level to get the job done, it works for us people with older trucks. But the market today demands more power, that's why HP has increased. The smart business decision would have been to design the engine so it could handle what the customers demand. Couldn't they forsee what the Duramax and Cummins were going to become? Ford would have lost tons of sales if the Duramax and Cummins were making 350/650 and Ford was making 250/500. It would have been rediculous.

I think it would be wise now to offer 2 tunes for the engine. They could offer the 6.7 with a configuration for the high power folks, the 400/800. Or they could offer a detuned version for higher mpg and longer life for those who just need a basic diesel truck that isn't the fastest on the road, gets the job done, and still gets decent MPG. Say maybe 300/550-650.


EDIT: Also, it would be interesting to hear some reliability statistics for the E-series 6.0 vs F-series 6.0, because from what I understand, they were significantly detuned.

 

[snicklas]

92F350CC

I know there were issues at first with the vans also..... I have heard of several lawsuits because of people that got worse, or died in the back of a 6.0 Powered Ambulance sitting on the shoulder because it had quit. This was early on... and caues alot of the bad press for the 6.0. The vans also have a different turbo. The F-Series and Excursion, received a VGT (Variable Geometry Turbo) and were 325/590 out the door. The E-Series vans have a standard turbo, more like the 7.3PSD turbo, and it was not a VGT. Looking on the net, the Vans were 235/440 out the door.

 

[CDX825]

Ill be quite honest I'm not crazy about the 6.7 at all. The "all ford built" BS dont mean much to me because its made in mexico. There is an engine plant in Indianapolis sitting closed right now because Ford threw International under the bus. That just rubs me the wrong way!

Its a shame they screwed their partnership with International. I don't think Ford would have ever been the best selling trucks if it wasn't for them using Internationals engines.

 

[93cc7.3]

ya i drive a 6.7 for work in a f550 rollback wrecker its got good power but the engine light comes on when it wants it exhaust cleans all the time and the truck electronics are kinda screwy

 

[greg_a_morton]

I would like one of the new 6.7s to test out myself! It does not matter what ford does, true ford guys will continue to buy fords. I met a guy the other day and has had a 6.0,6.4 and the new 6.7. It just goes to show if you had a 6.0 and still bought another ford diesel after that you are a true ford guy.

 

[93cc7.3]

That or your dumb

 

[Compu Doc]

92F350CC

I know there were issues at first with the vans also..... I have heard of several lawsuits because of people that got worse, or died in the back of a 6.0 Powered Ambulance sitting on the shoulder because it had quit. This was early on... and caues alot of the bad press for the 6.0. The vans also have a different turbo. The F-Series and Excursion, received a VGT (Variable Geometry Turbo) and were 325/590 out the door. The E-Series vans have a standard turbo, more like the 7.3PSD turbo, and it was not a VGT. Looking on the net, the Vans were 235/440 out the door.

Maybe that is why the diesel has not been available in the van or RV cutaway which is the main part of the box type ambulance in the past few years. A neighbor had a dog that was diagnosed with cancer and the vet made house calls unlike regular doctors today.

They had a new 2011 RV cutaway E450 with a special box on the back for the work area and it was a gasser. When I asked them about the mileage they said about 6MPG and I said they should have gotten it in diesel and would have had at least twice the mileage or better. They told me they could not get it in diesel. Not really believing it I went on the Ford.com website and sure enough the diesel is not available in the RV cutaway or van.

Now being that the new 6.7 is out I just went on Ford.com again and the diesel is not available in the van or RV cutaway. Perhaps Ford does not believe the 6.7 will be reliable enough to be used as an ambulance.

For areas that pay for ambulance service expect the fees to go up when they are only able to get gassers because of increased fuel usage. I can't imagine an ambulance without a diesel and could not even drive one with a gasser.

 

[92F350CC]

Actually, diesels will still be available in ambulances, and the reason for this is that a lot of ambulance companies have shifted from the E-Series to the F-Series for their chassis. I see lots of F450 ambulances with 6.4 engines in them. Haven't seen any 6.7's yet, but i'm sure they're out there.

The E-Series actually had an available diesel option up until 2009, but it was the 6.0 and not the 6.4. Apparently some sort of emissions credits that Ford had saved up allowed them to keep using the 6.0 in limited numbers. I believe that the reason they never put the 6.4 in the van was because of space. The same, I believe, holds true for the 6.7