1993 Ford F-Super Duty XLT - "Log Truck" (new to me truck-pic heavy)

[trackspeeder]

Could be a bad pump bushing. A new seal will not stop a damaged or worn bushing from leaking.

Check the converter hub too. Any damage or wear will make your new seal leak.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

Check the converter drain, "snug" fit can loosen itself easy depending on how tight (or loose) it actually is. Also, the pump has some sort of o-ring or gasket sealing it to the case, right? Any chance that got damaged somehow? Also you did make sure the converter was seated all the way in before you reinstalled the transmission?

Pull the shield plate with the tube and take a look in there, maybe you can see where fluid is coming from. If converter is leaking the whole bell will be sprayed with fluid, if it's something pump related likely only the bottom part of the bell will be oily.

yeah,i will double check it but as fast as it's pouring out,im afraid the plug would have to be pulled right out to leak this much.however,simple things first for sure.
yeah the pump has a gasket on the back side.i carefully removed and re-used it.
there is also an o-ring going around the whole outer side of the pump which was also in tip top shape.

yes.back as a teen,my old man warned me about pump damage and to insure the converter fully seats.
it's fairly obvious when a converter isn't fully seated though,as she just doesn't set in far enough like when she's seated.just the same,i always fully seat them and then turn another 5-6 full turns just to make sure of things as just doesn't take long.a little overkill but iv always done it.

i figured i'll try pulling the shield too but i doubt i'll be able to see anything helpful.but free and easiest things first for sure.

Could be a bad pump bushing. A new seal will not stop a damaged or worn bushing from leaking.

Check the converter hub too. Any damage or wear will make your new seal leak.

i did check out the inner bushing in the pump,though kinda hard to see it very well,it "appeared" fine with the grooves very distinct and deep looking.so as it appeared not to be worn down to the grooves at all.but i dunno.iv never had one fail on me before.always lucky with those perhaps?
iv never had a bell housing leak like this,that a front pump/converter seal didn't fix.
i wish i inspected the converter hub better.i don't recall anything out of the ordinary with it right off,but i may have taken a pic of it.i'll check...................dang i guess i didn't.i remember thinking about it but didn't.perhaps that would have come in handy.son of a gun.
well i guess i'll probably just have to pull her out again this weekend and try again.if i can't find the issue i'll post pics up and if that's not enough i'll haul the old gal into the trans shop and see if they see the issue with they're trained eyes.

thanks guys! we'll find the issue this time hopefully.i'll take pics of anything and everything and post 'em up.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

I'll just leave this here - RTO 660 swap time! Excellent for your teenage daughter to show all the boys how shift to like a boss

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

E9 pump... you sure you ain't got a F5 stashed somewhere?

interesting you ask this (no,though.i have nothing for spare pumps around) cus look at the other side of the pump here:
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50243&d=1400464783

it's the F5 casting.

oh good i found the pdf link;
http://www.atraonline.com/gears/2004/2004-03/2004_3_16.pdf

so based on the info he posted,i don't know if the two halves with these part #'s are "acceptable" to make a high volume pump.
any thoughts here?

just goes to show ya,you never know what your going to find with used vehicles.based on the fact that it worked fine for who knows how long before i got it and for a while (minus the recent leak) least for a few miles lol that it's likely a fine combo making the high volume f5?

interesting.here is someone selling a E9/f1 combo:
http://www.cascadetransmissionparts.com/e4odfrontpumprebuilt.aspx

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

so gearing up here to be well prepared for the next trans pull.on order;

3/8" - 24 E4OD 4R100 TORQUE CONVERTER NUT SET 4 STUD

Auto Trans Oil Pump Seal Center Front SKF 19966 (like what napa got for me)

Ford Truck E4OD E40D Transmission Front Pump seal Kit
(search that on ebay.comes with gasket and o-ring.the bushing i'll not use but rather than one below.the seal i wont use,but rather the one above)

SUPERIOR E4OD PUMP CORRECTION PACKAGE K062

^ that looks really good.if in fact the this bushing walked out of place and is the source of my issue,this kit cures this from happening again.


and i'd like to also replace that thrust washer.see the one on the pump there.it's got some ware.see that?what's this one called?
the trans shop said this one deteriorated on chip truck when he did the hd reman.so it would be wise to replace that,now that i wont be in a hurry.
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50242&d=1400464783

that side of the pump is the stator,so it's the stator support thrust washer correct?

http://cobratransmission.com/index....107197&zenid=c5484035e4627a77d1ed621c4d67ebf0

 

[trackspeeder]

The E9 combo pump is a step up from a stock pump. It is a higher volume pump, But not quite as high as the F5.

You have a nine lobe gear, but the pump retains the early worm tracks. I would use it for a stock/heavy duty build. Not for any extreme builds. It will be maxed out.

Don't forget the rubber washers for your bolts. You want those new.

Stator support thrust washer is correct.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

thanx man! i really appreciate your help on this.
ok i see two short bushings on each end.i see they have a bit of ware,so i should replace these.i'll look to see if i can figure out which 2 to order and have you verify those for me as well if you would.
i was unaware of the requiring new rubber washers for the bolts.so i'll look for those too.
i want to make sure i make everything "good" here,while im in here.
thanks for the info on the pump.i don't mind spending a couple hundred on this trans,but she's unknown to me,so i wont be doing anything with it besides making sure it works good and doesn't leak.once she goes,if and when that time comes,i'll probably have the trans shop build another hd unit up like he did to chip truck.but very cool it's got a half decent semi high vol pump though.

ok so here we go.so many people take off camping,hiking trips,visit the family,vaca,fishing etc. come memorial day weekend.not here on log truck.here on channel 444 is just another day at the work office.
so got done work early and come home for round two.just dropped her out.so here is what we've got.when you spot the problem let me know,or let me know where to snap the pics.

all pics current from recent trans drop (just taken within the hour of this post)

i'll now go out and remove the new seal,split the pump again and try and get as good of a pic as i can of the large bushing directly under the seal for anyone with the trained eye.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

ok.pump split.so i didn't need to pull the seal to snap a pic of the bushing.i was able to snap one from the back side.figured,why ruin a seal if not needed i suppose.maybe someone needs the view from under the seal though.iv got one coming anyway,so i guess it doesn't matter to pull it if needed.
before i split the pump i forgot to show the o-ring around the outside.it's all good as you can see.same all the way around.though i'll replace it with a new one now once the kit comes.but does anyone spot the issue? it's got to be a big issue.she pours out at idle from the bell housing/shield's drain tube just as fast as removing a cooler line and pumping it into a bucket.full flow issue here.nothing minor.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

is this bushing (one of the two,inside the shaft ends id like to replace while im at this) in the correct spot? is it supposed to be way down in there like that?
http://www.oilburners.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50397&d=1400888104

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

well.what am i thinking.like im doing this again and not replacing the bushing? i don't think so lmao.so of course after thinking correctly i just went out and pulled the seal.so there is a little bit of ware on it particularly in one spot.this one: http://www.oilburners.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50402&d=1400890303

the question is though,is that enough to cause the seal from working enough to pour the atf out at idle like the full flow of a cooler line? if so,it's news to me,but did i just find my issue?

i would think in order for the seal to not be able to work and pour the atf out full flow like that,the bushing would have to be almost if not,simply non existent but i dunno guys.im hoping someone spots something much more telling than a little bit of ware on a bushing,or i'll be awful skeptical bolting here back up again lol.

if anyone needs pics,not a problem.all the seals,gaskets,bushings,etc wont be here until the end of the week no doubt,as iv still got to order a couple more things too.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

I can't tell you how bad those bushings look, if at all. I do have an idea tho - since you have pump apart and the converter off, how about slipping the front half of the pump onto the converter snout to check for loose fit? If she goes in nice and tight she may be OK an not causing your issue, but if she can wobble all over the place once slid onto the snout that to me would indicate the bushing has worn out enough to potentially cause the snout to wiggle around a bit when installed (that stamped sheetmetal flex plate is not exactly very supportive to the converters weight once its full with fluid). Also that one worn spot you found, when the pump is installed in transmission is said spot on the bottom towards the oil pan? It makes sense for it to be there, cause like I said a full converter is quite a heavy thing and will therefore try to wipe the bushing in the spot supporting said weight... Maybe I'm way off-basis here, just throwing ideas your way.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

someone on FTE states:

"The bushing has moved and cut off the return hole.

The part of the bushing with the stakes should be flush with the housing, not sticking above it.

To me the pump body looks toasted.

Get a pump."

also found a second person finding fault with my pump on FTE here;
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...reprogramming-kit-shift-kit.html#post14374359

sounds like i'll be hitting up the net for a reman F5 pump to cure my issues.

...................

found a good used f5 on ebay w/ return policy if it doesn't look good.under 100$ worth a shot plus it's right in New York.)

order list,thus far;
3/8" - 24 E4OD 4R100 TORQUE CONVERTER NUT SET 4 STUD

Auto Trans Oil Pump Seal Center Front SKF 19966 (like what napa got for me)

Ford Truck E4OD E40D Transmission Front Pump seal Kit
(search that on ebay.comes with gasket and o-ring.the bushing i'll not use but rather than one below.the seal i wont use,but rather the one above)

SUPERIOR E4OD PUMP CORRECTION PACKAGE K062

stator support thrust washer
stator bushing rear
stator bushing front
pump bolt washers

then lastly, i'll update the 5/16 cooler lines to 3/8

did i get everything?
log truck will be down a solid week just waiting for parts but she should be good to go again here right after soon enough.hopefully this takes her down the road for a year or two issue free now.who knows with these old trucks though.it all beats them payments.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

yeah,this is exactly what happens guys.check it out.with the bushing removed,you can see the drain back hole.with it fully seated (crudely with a screw driver as it's junk anyway) you can see the fluid can return rather than be pushed through the front seal.
so it's interesting how there are those two dimples to keep the bushing from spinning in the housing,but there is nothing there to stop it from "walking" out on ya.will be interesting to see the superior K062 kit and how they address the issue for ya.

 

[trackspeeder]

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

I would replace the pump.
There is a lot of miles on it. Converter bushing is excessively worn and out of place. There is signs of galling in the gerotor bore. Just those two signs say time is limited on this pump.

Take your aftermarket parts out of this pump. Place the stock crap back in then trade it as a core.

 

[FORDF250HDXLT]

yeah iv got a used f5 pump coming now (well,of course wont get shipped out until Tues no doubt,due to holiday) and will swap my transgo parts over and install the superior K062 kit in the good pump.
i really don't want to invest too much in this possibly and probably oem 190k miles trans (guessing it's the stock trans due to light load on it with the 5.13's out back) but im debating tossing just a basic reman converter in with it while it's out.i mean 230 bucks w/ 3 yr/36k mile warranty sounds like a solid plan.sure would suck to have the oem unit fail shortly after two trans pulls lol.just a stock spec reman.for the price,it seems like i better be safe than sorry.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/E4OD-7-3L-6...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a87110ca8&vxp=mtr

maybe this converter is already a reman.someones been in this trans before for some reason.the converter nuts were well rounded before i finished them off getting them out this time.
maybe the converter is failing and the reason for the bushing walk and pump galling, was caused by debris coming from the internals of the converter (though no signs of any bright metal flakes anywhere,just some black disc material)
i did feel a shudder while driving it home,now i remember it.but at the time i figured fuel injectors cus i know the engine has still got a slight miss indicating injector time,but i wanted to run a tank through her first to see how it does.but was the shudder just caused by the bushing beginning to walk out? ahh,so hard with the unknowns.it's all a gamble but the old gal shifts great with no signs of requiring an overhaul of the trans at this point and it could go for years and years after this still.so i suppose a couple hundred in converter and the one hundred in pump then the 50-75ish in misc is a solid plan for it.

speeder,do you have experience with the Superior K062?
http://www.superior-transmission.com/Product_Page.cfm?ID=58

that's designed to resolve the issue of my bushing walking forward and blocking the hole. does it come with fair instructions? the last line im mainly interested in better understanding when it states:
"3. The O.E. drain back valve can melt in the pump. We replace this valve with a metal valve set-up."

where is this valve? is mine simply melted away and that's why the drain back hole you see in my pic appears to be empty? they supply a metal sleeve that gets inserted in there or what's the story with this?