HHO on an IDI?!?!?!

[subway]

i am not so sure it is junk science like some think. energy is neither created nor destroyed i get that. i think it has a chance to improve the efficiency by loosing less energy to just heat.

if you just say you loose energy adding somethign in then how would you explain a turbo????? they take energy to spin dont they? but they improve the efficiancy of the engine. i could see HHO allong those lines. there is a point of deminishing return but i can see it helping.

 

[tractorman86]

all this system does is take the potential energy inthe water and transfer it into mechanical energy when it creates a better burn so it dose not make or brake any laws you just have to look at it from every angle before you condemn it. there might be an angle you overlooked!

 

[dansvan]

all this system does is take the potential energy inthe water and transfer it into mechanical energy when it creates a better burn so it dose not make or brake any laws you just have to look at it from every angle before you condemn it. there might be an angle you overlooked!

But the mechanical energy it just created is used to spin the alternator (increased drag) to make the energy. Never ending cycle. No free lunch.

If it changes the A/F ratio making it more efficient then adjust what you allready have to match that efficiency,loose the extra drag on the alt. (remove the HHO) and gain even more.

Do you honestly think that with all the pressure the auto makers are under to clean the environment and raise the MPG values that if this worked there wouldn't be one under the hood of every car made?

 

[Shadetreemechanic]

all this system does is take the potential energy inthe water and transfer it into mechanical energy when it creates a better burn so it dose not make or brake any laws you just have to look at it from every angle before you condemn it. there might be an angle you overlooked!

It sounds like you are talking about water injection, which is a whole different animal. I am not trying to condemn it, I hope that there is some solution out there to getting more mpgs out of these rigs. I am just calling it like I see it and have yet to get much firm evidence from anyone other than someone trying to sell me a system.

A turbo differs from an HHO system quite abit. A turbo is taking energy (from the exhaust pressure) and using that to add more O2 to the cylinder. That additional O2 is what gives you power, not the energy pushing air into the cylinder. To make it comparable to the HHO processor the turbo would need to be taking the exhaust and splitting the CO2 from combustion into O2 and then injecting it into the cylinder.

 

[tractorman86]

easy killer i am neither defending it or bashing it. it seems to make sence to me that it would be phiesable on our diesels being that we have two batteries, idi's don't take much current to run, and most of us have a 75amp or better alternator when we probably only use 30 of those avalible amps. the manufacturers wouldn't ever use something like this so soon, it is not new technology, but it isn't proven efficency wise or longevity wise, so no auto makers are going to stay away from it a bit longer. emissions... phffff i couldn't care less i would just like to find out if it can make my truck better in any way(more efficient with fuel, more powerfull, and last longer).
shadetree this is exactly why us back yard guys need to experement with this kinda stuff that way we can say that the salesman is full of it or that he really has a useable system. i guess i should have clarified my statement when i said potential energy i ment the hydrogen in the water not the water itself.

 

[MF2003]

The reason HHO improves the burn of the existing fuel is that it burns at a high temperature at around 8000 feet per second. What results is all of the fuel is being burned before the exhaust valve opens so nothing is wasted in the exhaust stream. Nothing scientific, just common sense.

 

[93turbo_animal]

But the mechanical energy it just created is used to spin the alternator (increased drag) to make the energy. Never ending cycle. No free lunch.

your thinking that you build the system to burn the hydrogen but you don't you build the system so that the extra oxygen and hydrogen release more energy from the fuel from a more complete burn.

And those that think the extra electric draw burns up all the advantages I have 60 amps of heaters to heat my fuel for WVO and haven't dropped 1 mpg from haveing them on

It sounds like you are talking about water injection, which is a whole different animal

hmmm I wonder what 2 hydrogens and 1 oxygen make then?

 

[MeanGreen]

The difference is that a turbo is using energy that was otherwise wasted. The hot exhaust gasses were there anyway, just being dumped out. The turbo uses that "waste" energy. The hydrogen generator is requiring more energy and since no alternator is 100% efficient due to loss of electrical energy to heat (friction, etc.) you should not see any gains. Now, if by chance the hydrogen is acting as some sort of chemical catalyst allowing the diesel fuel's energy to be released better during combustion, then, yes, maybe there could be an improvement. But I don't see the hydrogen doing this. I only see the hydrogen being used as a so-called supplement fuel.
The only way to know for sure would be to run controlled testing on a dyno, measure the BTU output, etc. etc.
Never been a big fan of hydrogen or propane or any other explosive gas on a motor vehicle. 40 gallons of diesel or gasoline is bad enough in an accident, but that is just my opinion.
Jerry

i am not so sure it is junk science like some think. energy is neither created nor destroyed i get that. i think it has a chance to improve the efficiency by loosing less energy to just heat.

if you just say you loose energy adding somethign in then how would you explain a turbo????? they take energy to spin dont they? but they improve the efficiancy of the engine. i could see HHO allong those lines. there is a point of deminishing return but i can see it helping.

 

[david85]

I should have been more clear.

The idea with HHO is that it makes the fuel burn fuel more completely. Diesel will burn even if its dripped into the intake of the engine, but it burns better with a high pressure injection system, resulting in a net increase in efficiency even though the injection system consumes energy to squish the fuel. The HHO is another means to that same end (better fuel burn), at least thats how its supposed to work. I do not believe any claims of running an engine forever off of HHO that is generated with energy of the alterantor off the same engine.

 

[Shadetreemechanic]

I think you should go ahead and try it if you are interested. Just make sure you post your results.
If you don't do it this thread might continue on indefinitely and both sides could become even more sure of themselves.

 

[subway]

dont worry guys i know the differance between a turbo and hydrogen injection was simpy an example of device that is well proven to give ack in efficiency more than it robs parasitcly.

a turbo does rob some power being an exhaust restriction, how many kits do you see opening up HP with better exhaust flow. but it helps get more air in and greatly increases the burn and efficiancy. i dont want to side track the thread like a said it is just an example to draw from.

i have also never seen a MPG drop using the alternator heavy. i know it takes more energy to produce more amperage but siphoning off an extra 20-30 amps (just a guess here) for a HHO system wont drop your MPG signifacantly.

we arent pulling energy from the air here it would eb an exercise in increasing efficiancy.

 

[tractorman86]

I think you should go ahead and try it if you are interested. Just make sure you post your results. If you don't do it this thread might continue on indefinitely and both sides could become even more sure of themselves.

i agree 100% it is the only way to get it figured out. the dyno idea would work perfect, anybody got a friend with a dyno or have a lot of money they want to throw at it? it's for the better of our little idi society

 

[Papabear]

i forget what the technology is called but it is possible to make an electric current simply from exposure to heat if a guy could figure ot how to utilize the wasted heat energy from the engine or exhaust to create the recquired current to produce the hydrogen gas because i do know very little hydrogen is recquired to make the difference in the fuel system


JUST A THOUGHT

 

[david85]

30 amps would draw about 0.48 Hp when you consider losses in the alternator, wiring and other parts, you are still well below 1 Hp, anyone care to post the losses to the water pump, fan or injector pump? All I can say is that I think there is potential here. I don't have the time to work on it because my tranny is on the fritz right now and I'm crazy busy with the business. Damn valve body keeps sticking valves

 

[creighta]

I threw one of those generators together last winter w/ a bunch of junk I already had. I tested it on the bench and got a lot of bubbles, but 5months later and it is still settin on the bench witing for me to play more.

my understanding is you only need 1A per liter of engine, so 7 or 8 amps and your set. That is nothing for this engine as far as extra draw.

I can't confirm or deny the effectiveness yet, but the theory IS SOUND.
You are not creating energy, just allowing the same amount of fuel to do more by burning more completely.

As to the ORIGINAL POST.........I plan on just running a 5/8 hose from my HHO system into the stock breather and let the engine suck it through the air filter.

I AM CONCERNED THAT THE 7.3 PULLS ENOUGH AIR TO SUCK THE WATER OUT, but I don't know if it will.

WARNING: I started playing w/ this after talking to an EE that had a system on his minivan. He grenaded his van by not haveing a shutof solenoid run to the ignition. he accidentaly left the hho on all day and essentially created a bomb that went off when he tried to start the van.