Gear Vendor install questions

[lukewarmt]

Hey guys I'm back with more questions. Thanks for humoring me...I hope!

So I bought a old truck with a turbo charged 6.9 IDI and a Gear Vendor. This is on a regular cab truck with a C6 and a BW 1345 transfer case. The back of the transfer case has the Gear Vendors symbol.

I got the engine to go in the old truck but it has sat for so long there is a LOT to do to get the truck running where I trust it.

Just last week I bought a 4X4 extended cab mid 90's 6.9 IDI pickup truck with a T19 four speed manual. I know this truck and the engine was completely rebuild a year ago. I'd like to put my gear vendors into this truck but I'm not sure how to go about it. I'm assuming I can replace the transfer case that is currently in it with the one that has the Gear Vendors attached. This package is longer than my existing transfer case however and puts the tail shaft about 12 inches closer to the steady bearing as far as I can tell. Will this cause my drive shaft angles to be messed up? Can I lower my steady bearing with shims to help?

I took a look through the tech articles and I couldn't find any answers. The search feature also didn't pull up much.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide!

 

[riotwarrior]

Ok are both trucks same wheel base?

If so; then measure from front of bell housing to front of transfer case....if very close to same meqsurement tcase and drive shaft swap sjould....should be fine.

It all hinges on transmission length comparison. Thats it.

 

[lukewarmt]

Riotwarrior they are different wheel bases, one is a regular cab the other is an extended cab. As well the length of the complete unit (transfer case and gear vendors) is longer. I'm just wondering if anyone has experience with doing a swap like this? I might have to look for a different drive shaft, or shorten mine.

 

[lukewarmt]

Also riotwarrior I just noticed you are from BC as well! Always neat to meet another BC person on a forum.

I don't plan on swapping the transmission, I want to keep the 4 speed manual in the extended cab and add the transfer case + GV from the regular cab to it. Am I crazy?

 

[riotwarrior]

If and they are not bu5 if wheel bases where same the overall length of tcase doesnt matter.

It is the transmission leng5h that would have been critical.

Where in BC are you.

In all likelyhood you will need to either get a 1 piece rear shaft or shorten the stub shqft qnd drop carrier some with a spacer.

Details of both trucks is important.

 

[riotwarrior]

If and they are not bu5 if wheel bases where same the overall length of tcase doesnt matter.

It is the transmission leng5h that would have been critical.

Where in BC are you.

In all likelyhood you will need to either get a 1 piece rear shaft or shorten the stub shqft qnd drop carrier some with a spacer.

Details of both trucks is important.

 

[hce]

My 1984 extended cab started with a t-19 four speed and was swapped to a zf5 with no changes to driveshafts. My next step was a gearvendors, ironically purchased before the zf5, and is attached to a 1345 borgwarner. I had a complete custom rear driveshaft made up, front half was shortend, rear half remained the same length, ujoint sizes changed. A person could just have the front half shortend and rebalanced with the rear half. If you have a 3/4 you will either need to change the front yoke on the driveshaft or run a adapter ujoint as the gear vendors will have a 1350 series ujoint and the 3/4 ton uses 1330. One ton should have a 1350 series. I do have a 3/8" shim (10mm ish for the canadians) to drop my carrier bearing, only because the carrier bearing on the new shaft is shorter then the original. It does not seem to make a difference with or without the 3/8 shim and it only changes the driveshaft angle a couple tenth of degrees.
I vote for you not being crazy but I question my sanity.

 

[lukewarmt]

hce that's exactly what I needed to hear, thank you!

riotwarrior I live in Prince Rupert

 

[LCAM-01XA]

C6 and the 4-speeds are nearly identical in length in 4x4 form. But that doesn't matter cause the trucks are not the same wheel base, so you can't just move t-case + GV + rear driveshaft as a complete package from one truck to the other. But you sure as heck can move just the t-case and the GV together - then just have the front half of the rear shaft in the extended cab truck shortened by the respective amount. If the shaft yoke takes 1330 U-jount but the GV is set up for 1350 you can use a conversion u-joint, they are readily available and really not too expensive.

Also it's not the 1-tons that got the 1350s from the factory, it's just some 1-tons with manual transmissions - pretty sure all OBS sticks got 1350s, bricknoses are a hit or miss, and the '86 down are all 1330 regardless of stick or auto. It's no big deal IMHO, 1350s are nice but if you're smart about it and engage your front axle to spread the load when dragging something you probably shouldn't (like fully loaded 18-wheelers for example) the 1330s will last as well.

And yes you can certainly drop the carrier bearing down a bit if you think you need to. I've done it both ways to fix driveline vibe, one truck needed it a bit down while the other needed way up - Dana Corp. has a nice article published on how to determine driveline angles and what to shoot for, do an online search for it as I think you may find it quite helpful for your project.

 

[hce]

One more thing for the love of your driveline, make sure you have a the 4x4 lock out wired up and test it with HUBS LOCKED OUT by shifting into overdrive with t case in 4x4 and shifting the transfer case from 2 to 4 with overdrive engaged at low speeds preferably not on pavement. I imagine your hubs stay locked in a good amount in winter, and its so easy to be cruising down the highway in 4x4 and without thinking click the overdrive button. Next thing you know you have very violent wheelhop, a sheered off front pinion and a dented front driveshaft. If you do not have a gv controller www.maximum--overdrive.com sells them, but I am unsure if it has a lockout feature.
On the gv controller once the lockout is triggered it stays triggered until all the power is switched off to the controller, if wired correctly you just have to cycle the key off and on to reset it.

 

[lukewarmt]

hce I have the controller from the original install so I will look into finding a manual for installing it in a manual setup. I'm assuming the controller was the same between automatic and manual setups though. If not I'll be looking for a controller soon.

Thanks!

 

[LCAM-01XA]

I don't very much like the idea of a locked out lock out, makes it impossible to shift the GV once you've shifted in and out of 4x4 even once. The transfer case, unless its something ancient, will have electric switches on it, from the factory they are used for the indicator lights on the dash but you can add other stuff - for example in our IDI the in-cab winch control does not operate unless the t-case is in 4x4 mode (the winch is powerful enough to drag the truck with the rear wheels locked by the parking brake, the front hubs locked in and the front driveline coupled to the rear is the only way the truck can stay put and serve as an anchor for winching other stuff). So in case of a GV you can use the t-case mode switch for locking out the OD while the case is in 4x4. Unfortunately nothing prevents you from pulling the stick into 4x4 while the GV is engaged, but you could still do that with a controller as well. If that were our truck I'd outfit it with a 12V solenoid for blocking the t-case shifter from moving out of 2wd while GV is in high range, and on the other end use the t-case mode switch to prevent GV from engaging while t-case is in 4x4. Considering how ungodly expensive them things are I wouldn't want to cripple one with controls that limit its use to essential once per engine start...

 

[hce]

The switch on the 1345 (something ancient) will ground before the front end is engaged when pulling the shift lever, if the gear vendors 4x4 lockout is connected to the switch on the 1345 it will disengage the gearvendors before the front axle is engaged. The gear vendors is looking for a ground, even if the 4x4 light burns out it will still kick it out. It would be nice to have a second switch that cuts power to the solenoid when in 4x4, but the gear vendors system is pretty simple, well engineered and the electronics are rock solid. A person could easily put a intermittent n/c push button switch inline with power to the controller if you feel need to reset the 4x4 more the once per start, I have found that being required to cycle the key to reset lockout makes you think and check the 4x4 lever before engaging the overdrive, I have cycled the key going down the highway to reset the lockout not a big deal.
The one dislike I have for the gv controller for 4x4 is it will engages when the circuit is open, locks out when circuit is closed, this means if the wires is ripped off, switch fails to connect, or any non continuity in the system there will be no lockout when in 4 wheel drive. So do a good job wiring and tying up all wires to the 4x4 switch to gv unit.
My controller came off a e40d, works fine for the manual.

 

[hce]

Also the lockout staying engaged once activated is a good saftey measure, many trasnfer cases will remain engaged once shifted from 4h to 2h as a spring actually pushes on the fork to engage or disengage the shift hub or a spring directly on the shift hub. 1345 uses a spring pushing on the fork. If there is a bind caused by hard packed road the 4x4 the indicator switch of any sort will indicate it is the two wheel drive position, even though the 4x4 shift hub is still engaged hence the need for lockout to stay engaged once activated.

 

[LCAM-01XA]

Not familiar with the 1345, but I can put a 1356 together pretty much with my eyes closed and they have a similar setup with the range fork being rigidly connected to the shift lever (if the shifter moves the range fork WILL follow) and the mode fork being ramp-forced to engage 4x4 (the fork WILL move, but the hub itself will engage when the speeds match) and using a spring to return it to 2wd (in which case the hub can hold the fork back in 4x4 position till driveline load is low enough for the spring to do its thing), so I kinda know what you're talking about and it makes perfect sense. The 1356 switch runs off the ramp-plate that moves the forks, so yes it's fully possible for it to shut the dash light off while the mode hub is actually still engaged in 4x4 - for some reason I was under the impression the 1345 switch being on the rear of the case reads off the actual fork position, guess I was wrong tho, now I really got good motivation to tear a 1345 apart to see what's inside it

In any case, you bring up an excellent point. And there is actually a proper factory GV solution to all this mess - they make a unit for use in motorhomes with 4R100 transmissions with driveline brake. The chance of running into one of those tho...

As for the manual reset button, you get used to it enough eventually you'll push it by habit without even looking at the t-case shifter - kaboom! Unless you actually put it on the t-case shifter, then you'll definitely have to look at its position