ZF5 Rebuild
- Thread starter bajabomber87
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bajabomber87
Full Access Member
Not dumb at all, but yes I did slide thru them twice. It was difficult because I didnt have the actual handle bolted to it, just the 3"s or so worth of the shifter coming off the top of the tranny. I just figured it was hard because I wasnt turning the input shaft at the time and the gears just werent lining up right because Id just taken it all apart pretty much.
It should go into gear really easy even when the engine is shutoff, there maybe be a couple it won;t go right into but it should go into most of them easy. If it was always hard to put push into gear(even when shut off) I would think it was detent springs, but if it is only hard when running then it seems like the clutch is not fully releasing. Mine did the same thing when my clutch got stuck to the flywheel with rust.
bajabomber87
Full Access Member
Clutch works perfectly fine. The cover is still off and you can see it disengaging, plus the clutch and fly wheel and throwout are all brand new. So it must be the detents.
This may seem odd, but while the trans was out of the truck after the rebuild did you turn the input shaft and try to hold the output shaft still while the trans was out of gear. The baffle for the input shaft bearing can get pinched in between the two and cause the two not to rotate independtly and it will make it very hard to go into all gears but 4th and it will destroy synchros very fast (At least I was told this a while back, I think this would effect it mainly when driving not sitting still). Also when you removed the rear bearing did you leave the race or replace the race as well?
Hopefully it is just detents too tight but there is really no way to get them out without ruining them too.
Hopefully it is just detents too tight but there is really no way to get them out without ruining them too.
Last edited:
bajabomber87
Full Access Member
No I never did that. But where is this baffle? I kept reading it in the instructions from you and from online but didnt see anything out of place.
And the rear race was left in place, I measured it with a caliper and it wasnt worn out compared to the new bearings measurement so I left it.
The detents, I can get the caps out again, will just be a little difficult to get to because its in the truck and I put jb weld on the tops of the caps to make sure they dont move.
And the rear race was left in place, I measured it with a caliper and it wasnt worn out compared to the new bearings measurement so I left it.
The detents, I can get the caps out again, will just be a little difficult to get to because its in the truck and I put jb weld on the tops of the caps to make sure they dont move.
Thats fine that you left the race if it was in good shape, if you would have removed it and put a new one then you would have had to set the preload on the shaft again. The baffle was on the inside input shaft in the back of it where it slid over the bearings on the main shaft. If it was in good shape and slid over the bearing with no problem then you are probably alright there.
Alex S
Jeoff
hey any updates on this? looks like i will be going threw the same thing. what was the cost of it all if you dont mine 
bajabomber87
Full Access Member
I just got a dremel tool from work to clean the jb weld out of the detent spring caps, I'm planning on working on it this evening. But I took the shift cover off and I was able to move the shift rails somewhat with a bigass screwdriver so I know its just the detents.
I'll have to check my receipts to get you a total. Off the top of my head the clutch and fly wheel were $680 plus $50 for the bearing and race, plus $30 to remove the old bearing.
I'll have to check my receipts to get you a total. Off the top of my head the clutch and fly wheel were $680 plus $50 for the bearing and race, plus $30 to remove the old bearing.
averagef250
Full Access Member
Wish I would have seen this sooner. I could have saved you some hassle.
First, fix your clutch linkage. If the tranny doesn't want t go into gear you have a severe clutch disengagement issue. The mechanical side of it under the dash is the culprit. Possibly the hydraulic stuff, but it's not likely. Just because you think you see the pressure plate disengage (impossible in reality) doesn't mean it is fully. A 1/16" can make a world of difference on these trucks.
Second, the detent cups are not removed by drilling holes and pulling them out. This just drops shavings into the tranny and ruins the detent cups. All that's needed to get them out is first- note how deep they are installed and if they've been messed with by a moron rebuilder before. If they have, you could have some fun ahead of you. If the tranny has not been messed with take an 1/8" punch/drift and gently tap one side of the detent cup. Do this first thing, before you pull anything apart. The cup will easily rotate and when it gets 90 degrees from where it was the spring pressure will pop it right out and it will still look like new. If you pulled the case apart first then you'll need to stick a rod 1/2" diameter or so inside the shift rail bore to keep the detents up and put spring pressure on the cups.
In the case that a moron rebuilder has messed with your ZF and wallered out the detent holes, renstalled the plugs poorly or peened the hell out of the aluminum boss above the cups to hold them in I will do my best to clean them up, sometimes even going as far as welding up the holes and re-drilling them, but if the cups are just slightly loose what you can do is set the cup on a steel table concave side down and gently tap the top side with a hammer. You'll mushroom it out and can make it a perfect fit for the messed up hole this way.
To get the rear mainshaft bearing off the shaft I use a diff bearing puller that pulls it right off by the bearing cage. If you don't have one any shop that works on diffs should, it'll save you $40.
If the allen head bolts that hold the shift rail interlock plate on won't come right out don't strip them out. Just put some heat on the housing around and behind the area where the bolts go in. You can safely heat the case to 350 degrees. Those bolts will fall out at that temp.
Lastly, make sure you have the 1-3 thous bearing preload needed on the main and counter. I can't count how many shops think these things run bearing clearance instead of preload and build a ZF that comes apart the first time you put some power through it.
First, fix your clutch linkage. If the tranny doesn't want t go into gear you have a severe clutch disengagement issue. The mechanical side of it under the dash is the culprit. Possibly the hydraulic stuff, but it's not likely. Just because you think you see the pressure plate disengage (impossible in reality) doesn't mean it is fully. A 1/16" can make a world of difference on these trucks.
Second, the detent cups are not removed by drilling holes and pulling them out. This just drops shavings into the tranny and ruins the detent cups. All that's needed to get them out is first- note how deep they are installed and if they've been messed with by a moron rebuilder before. If they have, you could have some fun ahead of you. If the tranny has not been messed with take an 1/8" punch/drift and gently tap one side of the detent cup. Do this first thing, before you pull anything apart. The cup will easily rotate and when it gets 90 degrees from where it was the spring pressure will pop it right out and it will still look like new. If you pulled the case apart first then you'll need to stick a rod 1/2" diameter or so inside the shift rail bore to keep the detents up and put spring pressure on the cups.
In the case that a moron rebuilder has messed with your ZF and wallered out the detent holes, renstalled the plugs poorly or peened the hell out of the aluminum boss above the cups to hold them in I will do my best to clean them up, sometimes even going as far as welding up the holes and re-drilling them, but if the cups are just slightly loose what you can do is set the cup on a steel table concave side down and gently tap the top side with a hammer. You'll mushroom it out and can make it a perfect fit for the messed up hole this way.
To get the rear mainshaft bearing off the shaft I use a diff bearing puller that pulls it right off by the bearing cage. If you don't have one any shop that works on diffs should, it'll save you $40.
If the allen head bolts that hold the shift rail interlock plate on won't come right out don't strip them out. Just put some heat on the housing around and behind the area where the bolts go in. You can safely heat the case to 350 degrees. Those bolts will fall out at that temp.
Lastly, make sure you have the 1-3 thous bearing preload needed on the main and counter. I can't count how many shops think these things run bearing clearance instead of preload and build a ZF that comes apart the first time you put some power through it.
bajabomber87
Full Access Member
Its not the clutch or linkage at all, I already said I set the detent caps too far down. No ones touched this tranny besides me. I only said I have to drill out the jb weld that I put on top of the caps, I'm not drilling the caps at all.
bajabomber87
Full Access Member
I just did the tap it with a center punch and it spun on its axis, then pulled it with some needle nose pliers.
averagef250
Full Access Member
It would probably be something like Ford manual# 0321-504 covering all aspects of S5-42 operation, troubleshooting, disassembly and assembly.
The late 47's and S6-650's make you pull the cups out with a screw or become very creative to get them out in reusable shape.
bajabomber87
Full Access Member
Where do you even get replacement cups at?
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