Upgraded turbochargers

[david85]

yea you can have them bored out but its limited to compressor housing/wheel size. its not that universal. i think we need a bigger housing than what we have now. David didn't you have yours bored out to fit that 60-1 wheel? Could you go any farther than what you did on boring it out?

What happened was I bought a new compressor wheel and housing from typ4 and the compressor housing was custom bored to fit the wheel. Not really sure why that was done instead of simply using a properly fit housing off the shelf. Maybe Russ figured it would have been too big to fit in the truck?

david i think you should try changing you exhaust turbine to something in the .85 a/r ratio and see how that works for you. with the current turbine you are majorly choking off that turbo at higher rpms.....

I currently have a P trim turbine wheel which is the larges one short of going to a "big shaft" accorting to this: http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/twheel.html

All this time I thought my turbine was too large and not spinning fast enough to properly spool the compressor. I am seriously confised now.....

 

[sootman73]

i thought your a/r ratio was only .48 on the exhaust side? thats what i meant with changing the turbine. if you were around the .8X range i think you would see a lot more boost.

 

[david85]

i thought your a/r ratio was only .48 on the exhaust side? thats what i meant with changing the turbine. if you were around the .8X range i think you would see a lot more boost.

That was the spare turbine and housing I had lying around - standard trim and with a 0.48 a/r ratio housing. ghunt politely advised me to throw it as far away from my truck as possible....heehee

All I know about the 088 I am actually running right now is that it uses a P stage turbine. I don't know what the a/r ratio is on it. Still have not been able to find that info.

 

[FordGuy100]

I think those old 088 kits use a 1.00 A/R exhaust housing. Hence no real boost till at least 2000 rpms.

 

[ghunt]

yea you can have them bored out but its limited to compressor housing/wheel size. its not that universal. i think we need a bigger housing than what we have now. David didn't you have yours bored out to fit that 60-1 wheel? Could you go any farther than what you did on boring it out?

david i think you should try changing you exhaust turbine to something in the .85 a/r ratio and see how that works for you. with the current turbine you are majorly choking off that turbo at higher rpms.....

Gpop's Turbo Shop told me they can put a T04E wheel inside a T04B housing with some machining, no need to change anything else on the turbo.

 

[david85]

......so P trim exhaust turbine is the ideal hot side for these engines?

 

[david85]

I hope this works......

(most of my settings here are probably wrong so all input welcome)
I assumed 66% VE
250Hp
7.0L displacement
3000 RPM for peak power, redline and max boost
Minimum boost at 1000
BSFC @ .38
Target AF 18:1
Didn't change the intake temp.....

This is for the T61

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This is for the T04E 60 trim

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This is for the T04B H trim

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The T60 seems to have a rediculously high efficiency island.

 

[ghunt]

......so P trim exhaust turbine is the ideal hot side for these engines?

I was referring to cold side, not hot side...

I've actually wondered how an O-trim would work on these engines, though. Flows better than a T3 Stage III, but not quite as big as a P trim.

Also, I always thought of the T-series turbos to be more of high boost, high horsepower kind of turbos...those are the kind of turbos they run on Supras and drag cars.

 

[sootman73]

We need to get a motor on an engine dyno to even be able to use that website david. the VE changes at each rpm plus we need to know air fuel ratio, and brake specific fuel consumption. what you plotted there is nowhere near accurate if you dont know these actual values. If i had another motor i would take it to a guy to have it thrown on an engine dyno and get all these numbers. should prob have a TYP4 cam to swap and see what differences there are. Its $100 to run a motor on the dyno.

 

[FordGuy100]

It will give you as rough of a data plot as what we were doing earlier looking at flow and pressure ratios.

 

[sootman73]

yea its rough but its not accurate. that website can't give you a very rough estimate because we have no idea what the BSFC or AF ratio is. if we guess at that then we could be way off or right on. we have no way of knowing. simple math by hand is more accurate than that calculator. Once we get all the actual info that calculator will be great and will be able to give us the perfect turbo for each own's application.

Anyone have a motor and aplace to get it dyno'ed at? its pretty much gotta be rebuilt with quality known good parts though or else it wont be very accurate.

 

[77f250diesel]

If it's any help to the discussion the early Banks (Rotomaster) has an a/r 1.00 exhaust and .60 compressor.
With no load I see max 8 psi, with load (6-7000 lbs.) it maxes at 12 psi.

When I first did this settup the timing was retarded at 6.5-7 btdc and it was like the accel. pedal was connected to the boost gauge and I saw 13-14 psi., but it fell on it's face after abt. 1400 rpm.

Hope this helps some.

Dennis

 

[david85]

For AF ratio, I read 15:1 is the stoich ratio for diesel (incidently very close gasoline). But it can still be a little smoky there under real world conditions. 18-22:1 seems to be good for economy and power, with 40:1 being idle or very light load cruise.......

.....which is why I thought 18:1 seemed to be a good guess.

The website also states a non intercooled diesel is around .38 BSFC

Sadly, I don't think anyone really has the means to do a thorough evaluation of the ideal turbocharger so trial and error is probably our only real option.

 

[david85]

I'd like to start compiling what's been posted here for the "stock" turbocharger specs. Do you guys figure it could be worthy of a tech article?

ATS 085 - 1985 model non wastegated garrett T04B turbo

Compressor H trim?
Exhaust side ?

ATS 088 - 1988 model non wastegated garrett T04B turbo

Compressor side H Trim T04B
Exhaust side P trim 1.0 A/R ratio?

ATS 093 - 1993 model wastegated garrett T3/4 hybrid

Compressor side H trim T04B?
Exhaust side Stage lll T3

Maybe we can start listing the specs for the banks turbos as well? I don't know how many versions there are or what years they became available.

 

[pennsylvaniabo]

Here is the site. Have fun ! http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/

whoa that's intense, problem is I dont have half those numbers