I guess I need to chime in here and state my position on this. First of all, let me remind everyone that Ken and I are friends (at last check anyway). I've met him, rode with him, and talked tech with him, and I have owned his pump and his injectors. I was an avid supporter for quite some time, and still hope that his products suceed. I do not want nor need to be the only performance option for the members of this board. I'd also like to remind everyone that I only offer a service. I am NOT a business such as DPS Performance. Consequently, it really does not matter to me that much if I don't see Moose Pumps going out the door every week. It doesn't affect my income stream, and I have nothing to loose if DPS suddenly takes the lions share of the market. Because I don't really make any money on the pumps I process, I'm not in a position to offer them up for free or as demo's or comparison units. I don't really feel I have to prove anything, as the 43rd pump just shipped out the door and I've never had to warranty one. Truth be told, only 2 people every had an issue, and these were resolved to their satisfaction. If a DPS pump and injectors make more horsepower than my stuff, then so be it. Remember, I decided to have this stuff designed to do what I wanted it to do. I was so tickled with it, I thought others might like it too. As a hobbiest, I'm interested in taking the design further, but not at my expense. The Super Moose lays in wait for the first person who would like to try it, but I won't be putting one on any of my trucks. It's not what I want in a recreational or daily driver. I DO appreciate the compassion and defense of the Moose Products by my brothers here. It's rewarding to see that I have been able to achieve a level of confidence that is not bestowed easily. It's easy for someone to claim one product is superior to another, when no real comparison is being made. What makes one product good and one bad cannot be measured on a single parameter. Quality and desireability is a group of traits that average out to a particular perception. There is no "War" here per sey. What we do have is the inevitable skeptiscism and disbelief that is worthy of a lofty goal. Any time a new threshold is challenged, it is always up to the challenger to prove that a new goal has been reached. And that cannot be done alone. It is the sum of the community and multiple people working in parrallel to establish a new axiom. The best way to prove sucess is to share and encourage duplication. One of our biggest challenges in getting more HP out of these motors is to get more than one person to do the same things. Any scientist will confirm a single test proves nothing. Tests must be verified and experiments duplicated to prove the result is achieved with the same formula. We all know a turbo is a great add-on because many of us have put the same turbo on and said "yea.. this is great". In fact this forum is filled with the wealth of what works and what doesn't. It is this emperical knowledge that is currently being challenged, and we must all allow the normal process to run its course. When NMB2 becomes the new standard by which others can produce identical results, then his way will become part of that accepted standard that everyone can point to as what works. The question yet to be answered is if it is duplicatable. And if it is not, then what value does it have? Time will tell.