FordGuy100
Registered User
First off, we all know what this is about. I'm not here to defend or bash. Obviously Ken's products seem to be doing much better these days, as does his customer service. Thats great.
NMB2 you have an insane truck right now
. Hats off to you for what you have done, and what you are going to do.
That said, this whole DPS vs. Moose needs to end. Its getting annoying for a lot of us. At first I understand what you were going through as everybody told you dont deal with Ken at DPS due to his lack of customer service. But you have proved that he might be back on track.
When I first started looking at performance, I wanted DPS products. I wanted them bad. Who wouldnt? He was, at the time, the only guy providing products for us IH IDI'ers.
Now at that same time I got to oilburners, and these are the types of posts I found. Copied and pasted from numerous different threads with different folks:
"
As you regulars know, I recently installed a DPS turbo-calibrated IP and stage 1 injector set in my '92. From the moment I installed the parts, I've been battling a rough idle. At first, I had a injector leaking externally, that Ken exchanged for me. I replaced that injector, and it cured the leak, but not my rough idle. I attributed the rough idle to not having the truck properly timed, and set out to get a timing meter. Meanwhile, the truck was running great, with better-than-ever boost numbers and power on the freeway. The idle just wouldn't smooth out...
I tried a zillion times today to reach Ken, but as we all know he's a busy guy with lots going on. I'm at the point that I just need my truck to run, and to run right. Tomorrow I plan to switch the #1 and #2 injectors to see if cyl #1 comes to life, and if I can see the flash through the lumy probe. If I determine the injector to be faulty, what can be done to fix it? Have it rebuilt locally? Replace the entire set with a locally sourced stock set? Hope the sun and moon align right to get hold of Ken?
I'd love to get hold of Ken, but I really need my truck to just run right, and waiting on him is getting hard to do.
Tried repeatedly to contact Ken this morning, and still no luck. I ended up taking 2 injectors in to a local shop ( a known good one and the faulty one) and was assured that they could match whatever Ken did.
I tried calling Ken a bunch today, for a long time it seemed the phone was off the hook. I wonder if he has more than a few injectors bad out of the box..... I was going to mention that he had a customer patiently waiting to contact him in NM...somebody that wasn't running him down, just needed a callback and some help quick..but I guess you got it taken care of and I have yet to speak with him,
I think Ken has a good design, but he's had some problems lately (this isn't the only Injector issue I've had) and he's impossible to get hold of on the phone. I get the impression that he's got more business than he can handle at the moment, which is good for him, but bad for the rest of us.
I arrived to find the injectors from DPS on the tester, and set up to show the spray pattern. The injector that I deemed to be faulty just dribbled fuel like water from a garden hose. The other injector that I thought was good had a very erratic spray pattern, which would change every time it fired. Turns out, all DPS does is take a good reman'ed injector, and grinds the pintle off the end. Then they raise the pop-off pressure to try and get the fuel to atomize, even though the pintle has been ground flat. The nozzle and the rest of the injector are 100% stock, according to the local guys at CMP.
ended up with 8 new Delphi injectors, that they bench tested to assure me they were good. I ran back to work, and immediately began tearing into my truck (good thing it was slow today at work...). I had all 8 injectors swapped out in 45 minutes, and the truck was running again. It idles as smooth as a new Camry now, with no more misfire issues. I was able to time it off of cylinder #1 for the first time, and took it for a ride.
It doesn't seem to have lost any noticable power, but it smokes less. Boost numbers are the same, and it's quieter. At this point, it cost me another $280 to get the damn truck running properly, but at least it runs.
I tried repeatedly today to contact Ken at DPS to discuss this with him before dropping money on new injectors, but never got through. Left several more messages with no return phone calls. Ken, if you read this, I challenge you to be a man, and contact me to arrange refunding my money on the injectors. I still have all 8 DPS injectors, and will return them upon receiving a refund on my credit card statement.
We'll see how long my DPS Injection Pump lasts before it ***** the bed...
I have been having probelms with hearing back from Ken also. He is making himself look bad.
Ken seems to have peaks and valleys of sucess. I'm not going to stand up for him - he should come in and do that himself. As for the injectors though, I will tell you what I know from conversations and observations. First, remember that he did R&D this stuff. He pulls with one of his trucks, so the mods he came up with are legit. That said, on the injectors, when I got my set I tested them. I was afraid to put them in! Compared to factory injectors, they spray horribly. That's because the pintle is actually missing, not just ground down. At least that's what I was told. To get the injector to flow more, the pintle had to go as it was too restrictive. About the only thing you can test for is pop presure. When PAFixitman had his adventure last summer, I came over and tested his DPS injectors, and we did find a leaker. That's not a surprise, as any injector, factory or otherwise, doesn't seem to work as good in the tester as it works in the engine. I suspect the lack of heat may be a factor. Ken's main issue with his mods seems to be quality control. Reasons of which I'm not sure, but I would think that if he would communcate with reliability, that all other points could be forgiven.
My comments since I have both the IP and injectors from Ken. The first IP I got from Ken had a flow problem on #7 cyl (huge fuel knock). I checked this by moving inj around and still could not resolve the huge fuel knock on #7. Sent IP and inj back to Ken and after a very long time (~2mos??) I got them back, installed and everthing ran great.
Ken has a time issue he needs to resolve. Would I buy from him again? Not at this time. Things could change, but that is up to Ken.
I wouldn't call the attitude in this thread or any of the other threads complaining on the lack of response from Ken as being mean spirited at all. Disapointed? Yes. Without a doubt. Ready to lynch him? No. IMHO, I think this thread would be a great venue for Ken to explain his side of what's going on in his camp. It is possible for him to turn this around by explaining himself here.
The DPS pump seeps fuel onto the valley pan, has since day one. I think I can likely turn up the pump and get some more out of it, I haven't touched the fuel screw on it at all.
"
Needless to say, with guys who knew MUCH more than I did, I was not going to go the DPS route.
Most of us live in the US. What dominates? Capitalism. Capitalism is best with compitition, as it spurrs inovations and newer products. So perhaps this DPS vs. Moose products challenge might give us IDI guys some new products to try out.
Ken, I hope you get your secretary. Your products seem to be doing better, with someone to answer the phones on a regular basis, I'm sure many of us former anti-DPS persons might convert back.
Cant we all get along?
NMB2 you have an insane truck right now
. Hats off to you for what you have done, and what you are going to do. That said, this whole DPS vs. Moose needs to end. Its getting annoying for a lot of us. At first I understand what you were going through as everybody told you dont deal with Ken at DPS due to his lack of customer service. But you have proved that he might be back on track.
When I first started looking at performance, I wanted DPS products. I wanted them bad. Who wouldnt? He was, at the time, the only guy providing products for us IH IDI'ers.
Now at that same time I got to oilburners, and these are the types of posts I found. Copied and pasted from numerous different threads with different folks:
"
As you regulars know, I recently installed a DPS turbo-calibrated IP and stage 1 injector set in my '92. From the moment I installed the parts, I've been battling a rough idle. At first, I had a injector leaking externally, that Ken exchanged for me. I replaced that injector, and it cured the leak, but not my rough idle. I attributed the rough idle to not having the truck properly timed, and set out to get a timing meter. Meanwhile, the truck was running great, with better-than-ever boost numbers and power on the freeway. The idle just wouldn't smooth out...
I tried a zillion times today to reach Ken, but as we all know he's a busy guy with lots going on. I'm at the point that I just need my truck to run, and to run right. Tomorrow I plan to switch the #1 and #2 injectors to see if cyl #1 comes to life, and if I can see the flash through the lumy probe. If I determine the injector to be faulty, what can be done to fix it? Have it rebuilt locally? Replace the entire set with a locally sourced stock set? Hope the sun and moon align right to get hold of Ken?
I'd love to get hold of Ken, but I really need my truck to just run right, and waiting on him is getting hard to do.
Tried repeatedly to contact Ken this morning, and still no luck. I ended up taking 2 injectors in to a local shop ( a known good one and the faulty one) and was assured that they could match whatever Ken did.
I tried calling Ken a bunch today, for a long time it seemed the phone was off the hook. I wonder if he has more than a few injectors bad out of the box..... I was going to mention that he had a customer patiently waiting to contact him in NM...somebody that wasn't running him down, just needed a callback and some help quick..but I guess you got it taken care of and I have yet to speak with him,
I think Ken has a good design, but he's had some problems lately (this isn't the only Injector issue I've had) and he's impossible to get hold of on the phone. I get the impression that he's got more business than he can handle at the moment, which is good for him, but bad for the rest of us.
I arrived to find the injectors from DPS on the tester, and set up to show the spray pattern. The injector that I deemed to be faulty just dribbled fuel like water from a garden hose. The other injector that I thought was good had a very erratic spray pattern, which would change every time it fired. Turns out, all DPS does is take a good reman'ed injector, and grinds the pintle off the end. Then they raise the pop-off pressure to try and get the fuel to atomize, even though the pintle has been ground flat. The nozzle and the rest of the injector are 100% stock, according to the local guys at CMP.
ended up with 8 new Delphi injectors, that they bench tested to assure me they were good. I ran back to work, and immediately began tearing into my truck (good thing it was slow today at work...). I had all 8 injectors swapped out in 45 minutes, and the truck was running again. It idles as smooth as a new Camry now, with no more misfire issues. I was able to time it off of cylinder #1 for the first time, and took it for a ride.
It doesn't seem to have lost any noticable power, but it smokes less. Boost numbers are the same, and it's quieter. At this point, it cost me another $280 to get the damn truck running properly, but at least it runs.
I tried repeatedly today to contact Ken at DPS to discuss this with him before dropping money on new injectors, but never got through. Left several more messages with no return phone calls. Ken, if you read this, I challenge you to be a man, and contact me to arrange refunding my money on the injectors. I still have all 8 DPS injectors, and will return them upon receiving a refund on my credit card statement.
We'll see how long my DPS Injection Pump lasts before it ***** the bed...
I have been having probelms with hearing back from Ken also. He is making himself look bad.
Ken seems to have peaks and valleys of sucess. I'm not going to stand up for him - he should come in and do that himself. As for the injectors though, I will tell you what I know from conversations and observations. First, remember that he did R&D this stuff. He pulls with one of his trucks, so the mods he came up with are legit. That said, on the injectors, when I got my set I tested them. I was afraid to put them in! Compared to factory injectors, they spray horribly. That's because the pintle is actually missing, not just ground down. At least that's what I was told. To get the injector to flow more, the pintle had to go as it was too restrictive. About the only thing you can test for is pop presure. When PAFixitman had his adventure last summer, I came over and tested his DPS injectors, and we did find a leaker. That's not a surprise, as any injector, factory or otherwise, doesn't seem to work as good in the tester as it works in the engine. I suspect the lack of heat may be a factor. Ken's main issue with his mods seems to be quality control. Reasons of which I'm not sure, but I would think that if he would communcate with reliability, that all other points could be forgiven.
My comments since I have both the IP and injectors from Ken. The first IP I got from Ken had a flow problem on #7 cyl (huge fuel knock). I checked this by moving inj around and still could not resolve the huge fuel knock on #7. Sent IP and inj back to Ken and after a very long time (~2mos??) I got them back, installed and everthing ran great.
Ken has a time issue he needs to resolve. Would I buy from him again? Not at this time. Things could change, but that is up to Ken.
I wouldn't call the attitude in this thread or any of the other threads complaining on the lack of response from Ken as being mean spirited at all. Disapointed? Yes. Without a doubt. Ready to lynch him? No. IMHO, I think this thread would be a great venue for Ken to explain his side of what's going on in his camp. It is possible for him to turn this around by explaining himself here.
The DPS pump seeps fuel onto the valley pan, has since day one. I think I can likely turn up the pump and get some more out of it, I haven't touched the fuel screw on it at all.
"
Needless to say, with guys who knew MUCH more than I did, I was not going to go the DPS route.
Most of us live in the US. What dominates? Capitalism. Capitalism is best with compitition, as it spurrs inovations and newer products. So perhaps this DPS vs. Moose products challenge might give us IDI guys some new products to try out.
Ken, I hope you get your secretary. Your products seem to be doing better, with someone to answer the phones on a regular basis, I'm sure many of us former anti-DPS persons might convert back.
Cant we all get along?
