stanadyne DB4 vs modified DB2|||DB4 parts into a DB2? Marine pumps?

[jay22day]

So is anyone running a DB4 injection pump?

Their is talk of drivabilit issues with marine pumps on road vehicles. Thoughts?

With that being said, has anyone modded there DB2 with the DB4 parts to gain DB4 "like" performance out of the DB2 unit/housing.

The parts are said to be "interchangeable"
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Does anyone know of a good place a db4 core can be found at?

I'm thinking its probably going to be significantly more cost effective to mod the db2 but i haven't ruled the db4 pump out just yet.
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Yes: i know their is a reputable distributor of modified db2's

With that being said, im not paying $700 for a mechanical injection pump +core

The rebuild kits run less than $50 according to a re-man company i spoke with.

All parts are available through stanadyne as well.


Thanks for any helpful input

 

[icanfixall]

Where are you "finding" a DB2 rebuild kit for less than $50.00??? That comment sounds very suspect. Now please understand this. If you feel the gasket seals kit noted avaialble on ebay is a "rebuild kit". Well its time to bought it and tried it out. First off rebuilding one of these DB2 pumps is much more involved than just a gasket or seal. I'm no expert but some feel I am.. Well I'm not. I can do many things but rebuilding a DB2 pump is not something I can or would attempt doing. Reasons are many but mostly its very complex inside these pumps. Then you need the claibration machine. Thats going to cost around $75,000.00 used. If you find a friend that will allow you to test your pump on thier machine they are taking a big risk. They have no idea you did this rebuild clean and any dirt you did not see getting washed thru your newly rebuilt pump usually ruins it and the calibration machine. I have talked to some rebuilders and some parts require to be assembled under a fluid barrier. In other words under water.. But its not water. Are you ready to learn or are you just jumping in and taking a chance on a rebuild. Might want to have something that can prevent an engine run away if you do rebuild a pump. No sense sending a rod thru the block because you did something wrong in the rebuild. And a run away happened. Some rags and plastic to smother the open intake if you are non turboed or something hard that can cover the turbo air intake. Cutting the fuel or the air off to a run away is the ONLY way to shut one down. They run well past the governor red line too. See diesel run away vids on u tube for examples of this. Heres wishing you good luck rebuilding one of these pumps. I'm sure many here are going to be watching this post and nobody will call you silly for trying either. Thats not what this forum is about.

 

[BDCarrillo]

I have the Roosa Master rebuild manual and a good dozen pages call for specialty calibration with unique tools and machines...

Those seal kits are far from a true rebuild.

 

[jay22day]

Are you ready to learn or are you just jumping in and taking a chance on a rebuild. Might want to have something that can prevent an engine run away if you do rebuild a pump. No sense sending a rod thru the block because you did something wrong in the rebuild. And a run away happened. Some rags and plastic to smother the open intake if you are non turboed or something hard that can cover the turbo air intake. Cutting the fuel or the air off to a run away is the ONLY way to shut one down. They run well past the governor red line too. See diesel run away vids on u tube for examples of this. Heres wishing you good luck rebuilding one of these pumps. I'm sure many here are going to be watching this post and nobody will call you silly for trying either. Thats not what this forum is about.

thanks for the in put and good advice icanfixall!

My truck sat 6 years prior to me starting it, so i had already assembled a well functioning device to suffocate the old banks intake hat (for my first start up which was a few months back). Runaways do terrify me

I'm always prepared to learn, more so desiring to learn more.

What ill say about the $75,000 machine is this:

The first thing i do when looking at a job in which the MOST desirable tool is unreasonably expensive, is track back to how old the technology is.

The rotary distributor-type diesel fuel injection pump was invented by Vernon Roosa in 1941.

If roosa could design, machine, build, test, a pump in the late 30's early 40's and put it into production. Surly almost 80 years later i can achieve disassembling and reassembling the unit properly. I doubt Roosa had the $75,000 technology we have today, but who knows maybe they invested heavily in the design presses and tools back then, truthfully i dont know.

I would expect there is probably a "old school" way of doing things when it comes to rebuilding a piece of technology thats almost 80 years old.

btw i ordered my injectors rebuild from mylexinternation, i know thats frowned upon here, but they were less than $200 bb codes and looked brand new. At the time i was only willing to have a small amount of money invested in the truck to see if it would even run(if injectors were even the problem). They fixed the problem so i looked into the seal kit for the rotarypump. $40. The company has 100% positive feedback and the owner of the business does all the ebay orders himself, he was the customer service rep for the ebay store and was informative, helpful, and intelligent. They include instructions in there seal kit, believe it or not. He told me someone with mechanical experienced could do the "rebuild" but if i wasn't up to it they offer rebuilt pumps. He said a special tool was required for one part but often people find away to make "something work" sorry i dont remember his "trick" he had heard of people doing that dont want to buy the tool.

edit: the tool he was referring to was used in the dis-assembly/reassembly proses and isnt the calibration tool referenced above.

 

[icanfixall]

Thanks for the informative information on what you are planning. Also pleased that some ebay seller is helping you along. I'm really not sure but I feel the pump designed in the 30s or 40s is not the pump you are working on today bu I aplaud you for risking what you are doing. Sometimes we learn be opening something up and having a look. When I purchased my truck in 94 I only knew it was a diesel. I could not change a glow plug or an injector. I had a shop do that and they really screwed me over on the parts. They left in the back cylinder hard to reach glow plugs and installed autolites in the easy to reach cylinders. The back 2 were champions. When they burned out I figured I was going to learn how this was done. I learned fast too. Good luck on your plan. you have more faith in yourself than I have in myself. Injection pumps are a speciality item I leave to those that know. Money well spent is just that for me. Well spent. I realize there are cheaper ebay choices for injection pumps but what I have run for many years works very well for me. An owner can't know how much better something is till they ride in my rig. I do have plenty of "work" done on my engine too but it pulls well in double over drive too.

 

[Black dawg]

Putting a seal kit in a pump isnt that difficult, if you are just trying to fix leaks. But putting a different head and rotor (even just a two plunger) can be fun to get working right.

 

[BrandonMag]

 

[BDCarrillo]

If you have the spare cores, I'd say give it a shot. It's a complex process dialing in these type of pumps after changing out worn hard parts. You can find the rebuild manual online and give it a go.

Also keep in mind that 1940's engine designers had access to tooling and equipment that's still quite a bit beyond a DIY mechanic. We (humanity) had liquid fuel rockets back then, but we (DIYers) 70+ years later would be hard pressed to duplicate them. And FYSA that's just mixing two fluids in a controlled manner, same concepts as mechanical fuel injection.

/Soapbox

 

[Hydro-idi]

If you don't want to pay $700 for a good quality pump, here are a few places you can get cheap injection pumps. Can't say the quality is any good, and it may take 4-5 returns to get one that works, but here they are for about half the price.

http://www.dcpcart.com/OScart/
http://pensacoladiesel.com/

FYI, I bought a set of mylex reman injectors a couple years back. 2 out of the 8 injectors stuck open causing one of the pre-cups to coke with rock hard carbon. This was all within 2 weeks after installation. The engine also smoked something fierce and ran like . Going down the highway, drivers would flip me off and honk at me because it was smoking so bad. I had to use a small chisel/hammer and stuck it in injector bore hole to break the stuff apart and blow air through glowplug hole to get all the broken-up carbon out. Horrible experience. Luckily, mylex was very cooperative and sent me a brand new set of delphi BB codes. I did get them pop tested a second time and they checked out. I haven't had any issues since.
Like already stated, money will need to be spent if you want quality in the things being purchased....especially injection parts for these old idi's. Mel provided me with a stellar baby moose injection pump and am glad I went that route.

 

[OLDBULL8]

http://www.dcpcart.com/OScart/
Yup, good place. Probably be $325, $325, $325 plus all the shipping back.

http://pensacoladiesel.com/
Yup, another good place. But only $395, $395, $395, plus all the shipping back, even more costly.

If you like to keep changing IP's, that's the places to buy from.

I can assure you they are completely rebuilt on the outside. Nice and clean.

 

[jay22day]

Sorry guys i should been more specific in my original post. Its not just the $ for the pump, i want to do it myself. The only thing ive ever had to send out was a few engine heads to have them shaved and my 4G63T block to have it decked and blue printed.

I wont buy junk parts, i learned my lesson long ago.

Thanks for the feedback hydro-idi. It sucks that you had problems initially but im glad to hear that MYLEX took care of you.

I come from a history of service work in several industries. Ive seen first hand how often defective products make it out of places that mass produce parts, it happens, i wont stop buying from a company unless it becomes an excessive problem with re-man products. But ill never buy from pensicola, i called there to ask about how they re-man their injectors. He was kinda of a d!ck, acted like he didnt even wanna talk to me or that i was wasting his time asking about the process on such an old style, simple injector. Mylex was incredibly informative and more than happy to explain ever bit of everything they do, i was thoroughly impressed with there customer service and he gets things shipped out like NOW haha i ordered the injectors at night, he had them shipped the next morning, i know this because i called late morning to ask if he could ad the seal kit to my order, he had already shipped everything for the day because the post office closes early new years eve and he wanted to make sure he got all his orders out, good company for me so far.

I don't have a problem spending the money needed on building it well, you get what you pay for when it comes to parts! As a matter of fact buying a 4 plunger element probably wont be to cheap. Stanadyne has available parts so if something needs replaced its available.

 

[BDCarrillo]

If you want the manual, PM me your personal email.

 

[jay22day]

thanks BDcarrilo, much appreciated. PM sent

 

[sassyrel]

...........ive got a good friend, and he owns a pump rebuild shop. the pump on my 94 turbo, was being stupid....I showed at 7 one am,,and I left at 5:30..the pump was rebuilt,,by 10:00 am............guess what was going on the rest of the time???? the guy working for him,,was having a deuce of a time,,getting things set right..whoever rebuild it before,,was a hack...turn switch on,, gp light out,, just get it to turn a bit,,light off!!!!! the time, from 10 to 5,,was on the calibration machine........yah,,ive had them apart,,and put seals in, but this pump was acting stupid..think I could have had it run one bit better,,with just seals????????????????????

 

[Agnem]

The problem that you are going to run into, is that most DB4 pumps are 6 cylinders. A stock DB2 cam ring will not work with a 4 roller rotor. I understand and appreciate your desire to do it yourself, but the reality is this. Without the calibration bench, you will never be able to get that thing to run right. It may work OK, and maybe even well enough to fool you into thinking you did a good job, but it will not be RIGHT. All you have to do is loosen that T-27 torx on the cam on your throttle shaft, and move it a tiny hair, and its not going to be great anymore. Heck, it sometimes takes me 6 or 10 tries to get that thing dialed in, using the right equipment. And all the adjustments are inter-related. You cannot just keep changing one thing thinking it is going to turn out alright. It's true that these pumps were invented way back when, but they were simpler versions of what you have. The test equipment was developed in order to further develop the pump. There is no way I would rebuild a pump without a calibration bench. It would be a better use of my time to buy from one of those companies in the ebay "hey here is a pump for $300" category and bolt it on my engine, because in essence, they are doing exactly what you propose to do. There is no satisfaction in doing a job yourself, only to realize it will produce an inferior product then what you had before.